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Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: Is there any real diffrence between hope (.a'o) and
 desire (.au)?
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On Thursday, August 30, 2012 12:58:10 PM UTC+4, tijlan wrote:
>
> It seems to me that many instances of {a'o} can be rephrased as {ba'a 
> .au}: 
>
> .a'o do klama 
> I hope that you would come. 
>
> ba'a .au do klama 
> I anticipate* & desire that you would come. 
>
> (* In the evidential sense of "to see what might happen", not the 
> emotionally loaded sense of "to expect with pleasure".) 
>
> From my understanding, {ba'a} refers to the temporal location of 
> whatever information source that would prove or disprove the bridi 
> (hence its evidential status), not to the temporal location of the 
> event described by the bridi (for which there are PU). By {ba'a do 
> klama}, I'm saying that the truth of {do klama} would be revealed to 
> me, if at all, in the future (i.e. I'm yet to come across verificatory 
> information); and, by adding {au}, I'm expressing my desire for {do 
> klama}. (Note also that {ba'a} doesn't adequately express subjective 
> certainty or objective probability, for which there are {ju'o} and 
> {la'a}.) Then, {ba'a} is compatible with non-future events, which is 
> the case of "hope" too, as in "I hope they are already working on it", 
> which in my opinion can be translated using {ba'a .au}. 
>
> {au} seems intrinsic to {a'o}, and I can't think of a meaningful case 
> of {a'o .aunai broda}, to answer Joey's question. (But {a'onai .au 
> broda} is easily conceivable. When there's no hope for your coming but 
> I still desire that, I can say {a'onai .au do klama}.) 
>

Can't we clearly define UI in terms of {sei broda} after all?
So you are saying that {.a'o}={sei kanpe je djica}, right?

Can you also derive {.ai} from {.au}?
 

>
>
> mu'o 
>

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<br><br>On Thursday, August 30, 2012 12:58:10 PM UTC+4, tijlan wrote:<block=
quote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0;margin-left: 0.8ex;border-le=
ft: 1px #ccc solid;padding-left: 1ex;">It seems to me that many instances o=
f {a'o} can be rephrased as {ba'a .au}:
<br>
<br>.a'o do klama
<br>I hope that you would come.
<br>
<br>ba'a .au do klama
<br>I anticipate* &amp; desire that you would come.
<br>
<br>(* In the evidential sense of "to see what might happen", not the
<br>emotionally loaded sense of "to expect with pleasure".)
<br>
<br>From my understanding, {ba'a} refers to the temporal location of
<br>whatever information source that would prove or disprove the bridi
<br>(hence its evidential status), not to the temporal location of the
<br>event described by the bridi (for which there are PU). By {ba'a do
<br>klama}, I'm saying that the truth of {do klama} would be revealed to
<br>me, if at all, in the future (i.e. I'm yet to come across verificatory
<br>information); and, by adding {au}, I'm expressing my desire for {do
<br>klama}. (Note also that {ba'a} doesn't adequately express subjective
<br>certainty or objective probability, for which there are {ju'o} and
<br>{la'a}.) Then, {ba'a} is compatible with non-future events, which is
<br>the case of "hope" too, as in "I hope they are already working on it",
<br>which in my opinion can be translated using {ba'a .au}.
<br>
<br>{au} seems intrinsic to {a'o}, and I can't think of a meaningful case
<br>of {a'o .aunai broda}, to answer Joey's question. (But {a'onai .au
<br>broda} is easily conceivable. When there's no hope for your coming but
<br>I still desire that, I can say {a'onai .au do klama}.)
<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Can't we clearly define UI in terms of=
 {sei broda} after all?</div><div>So you are saying that {.a'o}=3D{sei kanp=
e je djica}, right?</div><div><br></div><div>Can you also derive {.ai} from=
 {.au}?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"ma=
rgin: 0;margin-left: 0.8ex;border-left: 1px #ccc solid;padding-left: 1ex;">
<br>
<br>mu'o
<br></blockquote>

<p></p>

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