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Subject: Re: [lojban] Revising mu'ei and CAhA once again. Possible worlds.
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On Tuesday, August 14, 2012 10:34:20 PM UTC+4, And Rosta wrote:
>
> Gleki Arxokuna, On 14/08/2012 18:23: 
> > I wish Robin started using {mu'ei} again but 
> > it's really when usage decides. May be human brain just doesn't want 
> > to deal with A-level at such level of precision. May be {ka'e/na 
> > ka'e/ka'ei/bia'i} or even {bi'ai} is enough. 
>
> The evidence of natural language is to the contrary. The 
> could/probably/would contrast is the some/most/all contrast. 
>
> > The use of {da'i} is interesting. For a logical language it's 
> > completely deplorable, because there's a complete mismatch between 
> > the lexicosyntactic form and the logical form, and no explicit rule 
> > about how to get from one to the other -- it works by mere stipulated 
> > magic. But it caught on among those impatient to be actively using 
> > the language, and nicely illustrated the fundamental incompatibility 
> > between a loglang and a language governed by the principle of "let 
> > usage decide". 
> > 
> > May be we can determine the most common usage of {da'i} and redefine 
> > it from the point of view of A/M/F-level scheme? May be we should 
> > perform analysis of Lojban corpus and tatoeba sentences? 
>
> {da'i} is in UI, isn't it? So it doesn't have the right grammatical 
> properties. 
>
It is in UI. If I "discovered" A and F levels why not bind {da'i} to 
A-level i.e. make it a synonym of {ka'e} but without changing the grammar 
and selmaho
and {da'inai} would be "equal" to {ca'a}.


> The purest ways to proceed would be either (1) to define things so that 
> they're logical and regular, regardless of usage, i.e. basically just 
> implement all xorxes's proposals, or (2) to treat the language as an 
> inchoate natlang, a la Lojbab, and abduce grammar out of usage as 
> linguistics of natlangs does. 
>
> --And. 
>

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<br><br>On Tuesday, August 14, 2012 10:34:20 PM UTC+4, And Rosta wrote:<blo=
ckquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0;margin-left: 0.8ex;border-=
left: 1px #ccc solid;padding-left: 1ex;">Gleki Arxokuna, On 14/08/2012 18:2=
3:
<br>&gt; I wish Robin started using {mu'ei} again but
<br>&gt; it's really when usage decides. May be human brain just doesn't wa=
nt
<br>&gt; to deal with A-level at such level of precision. May be {ka'e/na
<br>&gt; ka'e/ka'ei/bia'i} or even {bi'ai} is enough.
<br>
<br>The evidence of natural language is to the contrary. The could/probably=
/would contrast is the some/most/all contrast.
<br>
<br>&gt; The use of {da'i} is interesting. For a logical language it's
<br>&gt; completely deplorable, because there's a complete mismatch between
<br>&gt; the lexicosyntactic form and the logical form, and no explicit rul=
e
<br>&gt; about how to get from one to the other -- it works by mere stipula=
ted
<br>&gt; magic. But it caught on among those impatient to be actively using
<br>&gt; the language, and nicely illustrated the fundamental incompatibili=
ty
<br>&gt; between a loglang and a language governed by the principle of "let
<br>&gt; usage decide".
<br>&gt;
<br>&gt; May be we can determine the most common usage of {da'i} and redefi=
ne
<br>&gt; it from the point of view of A/M/F-level scheme? May be we should
<br>&gt; perform analysis of Lojban corpus and tatoeba sentences?
<br>
<br>{da'i} is in UI, isn't it? So it doesn't have the right grammatical pro=
perties.
<br></blockquote><div>It is in UI. If I "discovered" A and F levels why not=
 bind {da'i} to A-level i.e. make it a synonym of {ka'e} but without changi=
ng the grammar and selmaho</div><div>and {da'inai} would be "equal" to {ca'=
a}.</div><div><br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: =
0;margin-left: 0.8ex;border-left: 1px #ccc solid;padding-left: 1ex;">
<br>The purest ways to proceed would be either (1) to define things so that=
 they're logical and regular, regardless of usage, i.e. basically just impl=
ement all xorxes's proposals, or (2) to treat the language as an inchoate n=
atlang, a la Lojbab, and abduce grammar out of usage as linguistics of natl=
angs does.
<br>
<br>--And.
<br></blockquote>

<p></p>

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