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Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2012 20:39:38 +0100
From: And Rosta <and.rosta@gmail.com>
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Subject: Re: [lojban] Revising mu'ei and CAhA once again. Possible worlds.
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la gleki, On 31/08/2012 17:48:
> On Tuesday, August 14, 2012 10:34:20 PM UTC+4, And Rosta wrote:
>
>     Gleki Arxokuna, On 14/08/2012 18:23:
>      > I wish Robin started using {mu'ei} again but
>      > it's really when usage decides. May be human brain just doesn't wa=
nt
>      > to deal with A-level at such level of precision. May be {ka'e/na
>      > ka'e/ka'ei/bia'i} or even {bi'ai} is enough.
>
>     The evidence of natural language is to the contrary. The could/probab=
ly/would contrast is the some/most/all contrast.
>
>      > The use of {da'i} is interesting. For a logical language it's
>      > completely deplorable, because there's a complete mismatch between
>      > the lexicosyntactic form and the logical form, and no explicit rul=
e
>      > about how to get from one to the other -- it works by mere stipula=
ted
>      > magic. But it caught on among those impatient to be actively using
>      > the language, and nicely illustrated the fundamental incompatibili=
ty
>      > between a loglang and a language governed by the principle of "let
>      > usage decide".
>      >
>      > May be we can determine the most common usage of {da'i} and redefi=
ne
>      > it from the point of view of A/M/F-level scheme? May be we should
>      > perform analysis of Lojban corpus and tatoeba sentences?
>
>     {da'i} is in UI, isn't it? So it doesn't have the right grammatical p=
roperties.
>
> It is in UI. If I "discovered" A and F levels why not bind {da'i} to A-le=
vel i.e. make it a synonym of {ka'e} but without changing the grammar and s=
elmaho
> and {da'inai} would be "equal" to {ca'a}.

Because {da'i} should be a marker of mood -- of hypothetical, unassertive m=
ood; whereas, ka'e is a modal of possibility. Modals involve quantification=
 over possible states of affairs of various sorts. Moods involve a relation=
 between the speaker and the proposition -- the speaker asserts p to be tru=
e, the speaker wishes p were true, the speaker entertains the idea of p, th=
e speaker asks whether p is true, and so forth.

(There's no harm in marking the protasis and/or apodosis of a conditional w=
ith da'i, but da'i doesn't generate conditional semantics.)

--And.

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