Received: from mail-yx0-f189.google.com ([209.85.213.189]:60860)
	by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128)
	(Exim 4.76)
	(envelope-from <lojban+bncCIywt_XDCRD42IWCBRoEmueyaA@googlegroups.com>)
	id 1T7d1o-0002UB-1O; Fri, 31 Aug 2012 19:01:47 -0700
Received: by yenq11 with SMTP id q11sf3057561yen.16
        for <multiple recipients>; Fri, 31 Aug 2012 19:01:28 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;
        d=googlegroups.com; s=20120806;
        h=x-beenthere:received-spf:x-yahoo-newman-property:x-yahoo-newman-id
         :x-ymail-osg:x-mailer:references:message-id:date:from:reply-to
         :subject:to:in-reply-to:mime-version:x-original-sender
         :x-original-authentication-results:precedence:mailing-list:list-id
         :x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender
         :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type;
        bh=Hid/I7ApZ2WOFojfUoH8CMDhUYolxe+29bmVdc+bXcE=;
        b=j201+CW8hqfLbbBbcVzP5nyjw1nNZ1PETMFdJ2BrkdbMU7CcD8dP4Ly0s5fwF8+iFm
         O1A0CoOZJttdWSUhXeU0Ixd9YmuPk4UiBc88o5+BLHEB1uC38MaWtWe8K9zVoikrFhZp
         kACnTaDzYy5gnfrb0XRzKb7U4xdDF7/68xmSW/7KhiHCBUGQvtnaCpX0SYNefv7MCHJX
         RaQ59b8wRz7Ejno4T8s00twUmxHW4G8+x14CVatWkGcZeHcDqHUcodDfMHGiXIsJuPBS
         jSKfnsjDTXAq3VzDNGHBweSl5CG77WBg1kQ3uVvOpUfmRHZ0VXuSJGC0aETQRsq+5Zuz
         jPmg==
Received: by 10.50.0.170 with SMTP id 10mr1181977igf.3.1346464888132;
        Fri, 31 Aug 2012 19:01:28 -0700 (PDT)
X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com
Received: by 10.231.4.209 with SMTP id 17ls8157528ibs.6.gmail; Fri, 31 Aug
 2012 19:01:27 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by 10.43.105.135 with SMTP id dq7mr5263709icc.3.1346464887515;
        Fri, 31 Aug 2012 19:01:27 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by 10.43.105.135 with SMTP id dq7mr5263708icc.3.1346464887498;
        Fri, 31 Aug 2012 19:01:27 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from nm1-vm0.bullet.mail.ac4.yahoo.com (nm1-vm0.bullet.mail.ac4.yahoo.com. [98.139.53.202])
        by gmr-mx.google.com with SMTP id dd6si846139igc.0.2012.08.31.19.01.27;
        Fri, 31 Aug 2012 19:01:27 -0700 (PDT)
Received-SPF: pass (google.com: best guess record for domain of kali9putra@yahoo.com designates 98.139.53.202 as permitted sender) client-ip=98.139.53.202;
Received: from [98.139.52.192] by nm1.bullet.mail.ac4.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Sep 2012 02:01:27 -0000
Received: from [66.94.237.120] by tm5.bullet.mail.ac4.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Sep 2012 02:01:26 -0000
Received: from [127.0.0.1] by omp1025.access.mail.mud.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Sep 2012 02:01:26 -0000
X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3
X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 800617.13542.bm@omp1025.access.mail.mud.yahoo.com
Received: (qmail 66945 invoked by uid 60001); 1 Sep 2012 02:01:26 -0000
X-YMail-OSG: yTArHVgVM1lkJI2d36kJAc2PAUhxjDdRYomFQrFPE1s2mr8
 sBk4sP3JfAZ24NJipjUkocZogA2jeWhbo0_.4vX3AHcW5JyW3_UJPiZ7o6oM
 DiFaCx.837C219koda65o4XDag4OnXEopcGyT1jBeUbulNzXbuB7uMV0mHzN
 OKorb1mUGNfdhLjj05.H9t4E0mU.N52fq9kKZSlfF4XHTzeVbk9NIWVuaiRq
 GquXnxYQuUNck3xbuOvEAqcRVWFvWizhVj78sJeIXQHV3s06KyttXJe1oECB
 SAK9FJbWPL1DgLBhQI37Eu8mMmhdUcRXzP9.4ku6XZ3R6k.gNx8Nq9giA_C_
 G61Aan8nAqIGnnOzMdDHwbDxTXEFFPKmln9vl56U_0jJ5bCrevc.zbNOhsvt
 ZTzv43llnSpbwZ5a8Zhl4TcbSMrzEE53XW44hcigpKPH0HCYX2Lf5XhR4Ot8
 JAWkFNoQxUNvJph6gvMd_OVOm8f6SYvu5A0YagG1DYMsAwIRdecvRuPpYD8v
 d7v3I1LLuoH5tThn941vFye4urEyBMgaPmoI8C3jOkSzMtQ7IYX6SZSdwY_g
 0Ld7mr6R5Fffc_YqCPtsAVCsw0cw_4lmzfw0yuX75SlQ-
Received: from [99.92.108.194] by web184402.mail.bf1.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 31 Aug 2012 19:01:26 PDT
X-Mailer: YahooMailWebService/0.8.121.416
References: <e09a669e-9fdd-47c1-968a-014ec72e933e@googlegroups.com> <502A81EB.2000005@gmail.com> <fbfa4089-61e9-4b2a-b858-8ec8b42f85bd@googlegroups.com> <502A9A2C.20606@gmail.com> <55e70b7d-e835-423b-8557-8ae88b88a4e2@googlegroups.com> <504112FA.4010001@gmail.com> <1346454346.99385.YahooMailNeo@web184406.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <504147D9.7070900@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1346464886.37690.YahooMailNeo@web184402.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2012 19:01:26 -0700 (PDT)
From: John E Clifford <kali9putra@yahoo.com>
Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [lojban] Revising mu'ei and CAhA once again. Possible worlds.
To: "lojban@googlegroups.com" <lojban@googlegroups.com>
In-Reply-To: <504147D9.7070900@gmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Original-Sender: kali9putra@yahoo.com
X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com:
 best guess record for domain of kali9putra@yahoo.com designates 98.139.53.202
 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=kali9putra@yahoo.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@yahoo.com
Precedence: list
Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com
List-ID: <lojban.googlegroups.com>
X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417
List-Post: <http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/post?hl=en_US>, <mailto:lojban@googlegroups.com>
List-Help: <http://groups.google.com/support/?hl=en_US>, <mailto:lojban+help@googlegroups.com>
List-Archive: <http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en_US>
Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com
List-Subscribe: <http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/subscribe?hl=en_US>, <mailto:lojban+subscribe@googlegroups.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/subscribe?hl=en_US>, <mailto:googlegroups-manage+1004133512417+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-334495122-1101795132-1346464886=:37690"
X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/)
X-Spam_score: -0.7
X-Spam_score_int: -6
X-Spam_bar: /

---334495122-1101795132-1346464886=:37690
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

OK.=A0 The point is that the whole {da'i} utterance has no truth value, at =
least not in this world.=A0 It is foundational (and thus true) in some alte=
rnate world(s) to which {da'i} takes the discussion.=A0 But I suspect you h=
ave something else in mind and I can't quite make out what it is.




________________________________
 From: And Rosta <and.rosta@gmail.com>
To: lojban@googlegroups.com=20
Sent: Friday, August 31, 2012 6:25 PM
Subject: Re: [lojban] Revising mu'ei and CAhA once again. Possible worlds.
=20
John E Clifford, On 01/09/2012 00:05:
> Using {da'i} with truth-functional connectives is, of course,
> dissonant, since a {da'i} sentence has no truth value.

The propositional content of a da'i sentence does have a truth-value, and m=
ay contain truth-functional connectives. But the speaker is making no claim=
 about what that truth value is. This holds not just for da'i but for most =
illocutionary UI.

--And.

-- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Group=
s "lojban" group.
To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou=
ps.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban=
?hl=3Den.

--=20
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "=
lojban" group.
To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou=
ps.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban=
?hl=3Den.


---334495122-1101795132-1346464886=:37690
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<html><body><div style=3D"color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:ti=
mes new roman, new york, times, serif;font-size:12pt">OK.&nbsp; The point i=
s that the whole {da'i} utterance has no truth value, at least not in this =
world.&nbsp; It is foundational (and thus true) in some alternate world(s) =
to which {da'i} takes the discussion.&nbsp; But I suspect you have somethin=
g else in mind and I can't quite make out what it is.<br><div><span><br></s=
pan></div><div><br></div>  <div style=3D"font-family: times new roman, new =
york, times, serif; font-size: 12pt;"> <div style=3D"font-family: times new=
 roman, new york, times, serif; font-size: 12pt;"> <div dir=3D"ltr"> <font =
face=3D"Arial" size=3D"2"> <hr size=3D"1">  <b><span style=3D"font-weight:b=
old;">From:</span></b> And Rosta &lt;and.rosta@gmail.com&gt;<br> <b><span s=
tyle=3D"font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b> lojban@googlegroups.com <br> <b>=
<span style=3D"font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b> Friday, August 31, 2012=
 6:25 PM<br>
 <b><span style=3D"font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b> Re: [lojban] Rev=
ising mu'ei and CAhA once again. Possible worlds.<br> </font> </div> <br>
John E Clifford, On 01/09/2012 00:05:<br>&gt; Using {da'i} with truth-funct=
ional connectives is, of course,<br>&gt; dissonant, since a {da'i} sentence=
 has no truth value.<br><br>The propositional content of a da'i sentence do=
es have a truth-value, and may contain truth-functional connectives. But th=
e speaker is making no claim about what that truth value is. This holds not=
 just for da'i but for most illocutionary UI.<br><br>--And.<br><br>-- You r=
eceived this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojba=
n" group.<br>To post to this group, send email to <a ymailto=3D"mailto:lojb=
an@googlegroups.com" href=3D"mailto:lojban@googlegroups.com">lojban@googleg=
roups.com</a>.<br>To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+<a y=
mailto=3D"mailto:unsubscribe@googlegroups.com" href=3D"mailto:unsubscribe@g=
ooglegroups.com">unsubscribe@googlegroups.com</a>.<br>For more options, vis=
it this group at
 http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den.<br><br><br><br> </div> </di=
v>  </div></body></html>

<p></p>

-- <br />
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "=
lojban" group.<br />
To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.<br />
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou=
ps.com.<br />

For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban=
?hl=3Den.<br />



---334495122-1101795132-1346464886=:37690--