Received: from mail-yx0-f189.google.com ([209.85.213.189]:48733)
	by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128)
	(Exim 4.76)
	(envelope-from <lojban+bncCKTKrK_7FxC4n4iCBRoE6Yyr2g@googlegroups.com>)
	id 1T7ntn-0000ze-Fs; Sat, 01 Sep 2012 06:38:21 -0700
Received: by yenq11 with SMTP id q11sf3467745yen.16
        for <multiple recipients>; Sat, 01 Sep 2012 06:38:01 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;
        d=googlegroups.com; s=20120806;
        h=x-beenthere:date:from:to:message-id:in-reply-to:references:subject
         :mime-version:x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results
         :reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id:x-google-group-id
         :list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe
         :list-unsubscribe:content-type;
        bh=yMJRIZHxmH3h9bl2pMOEVRkqzcYUzgiJtc7hC2jH7ZQ=;
        b=VmjHPg7CFaVHFz0VOYiveEHrzaYHNttBFW06BJnvoR36pYMIN6uH/dfcKjeyIrkuyb
         AD5+xXNiSug35Lwtq+A1e+f6wjOYvwAfi99Gr/RXc4DRUf7rCkjqO73uj2+AWNBCwlud
         aBzjP3jzg5zvLDk+ygAF3suE0zhWMNkSBFp2AKHMXPOhPLNT7UfJd7MqUems2KRvf78Q
         YzgECvR4BgVOIn9N+VXTrlshVpxI/Wyo6oz8eAvCgGnybqUCwj38OyU98D+lnQEYkLSU
         2fWjkpM63kU2d6n8xeWILkRTGlvZxgU5wpwfNRlpHsoffLzV3IjxeVb+pvd0/JL1BNyU
         LYSA==
Received: by 10.236.175.1 with SMTP id y1mr74275yhl.9.1346506680976;
        Sat, 01 Sep 2012 06:38:00 -0700 (PDT)
X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com
Received: by 10.236.44.174 with SMTP id n34ls6156441yhb.4.gmail; Sat, 01 Sep
 2012 06:38:00 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by 10.236.201.134 with SMTP id b6mr1095950yho.15.1346506680428;
        Sat, 01 Sep 2012 06:38:00 -0700 (PDT)
Date: Sat, 1 Sep 2012 06:37:59 -0700 (PDT)
From: triliyn <trillionalyssa@gmail.com>
To: lojban@googlegroups.com
Message-Id: <1b189a5d-34a1-40be-9b40-a003ff1ad06a@googlegroups.com>
In-Reply-To: <2a7beba8-e0dd-42f4-a641-a0dace5a2e4d@googlegroups.com>
References: <e3b6680b-31ac-4c30-8399-541f19ad50c1@googlegroups.com>
 <8d3fb774-f4ff-4b86-afa2-df153de2f633@googlegroups.com>
 <CAHiXx=Pm+X0UGv8PcE=x1LP7AL03pMhtMQGDBfXP5OqghR2fpQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPAJj9+BsuPBtLcx9DfxJu-_FFe7pcrzyArrkLbNEBp7SJSL9g@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPAJj9Ks+bKiYUQSg3t+ejq0s83Vk1BXsWugxWBZHc36EHJUyg@mail.gmail.com>
 <10cd53d6-5aa9-40be-a1f9-2f5ad3115159@googlegroups.com>
 <CAPAJj9+nwHHHrXgAPqhFni_KxkJot8bdSPtG-dt-m+02d9shQg@mail.gmail.com>
 <2a7beba8-e0dd-42f4-a641-a0dace5a2e4d@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: Is there any real diffrence between hope (.a'o) and
 desire (.au)?
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Original-Sender: trillionalyssa@gmail.com
X-Original-Authentication-Results: ls.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of
 trillionalyssa@gmail.com designates internal as permitted sender)
 smtp.mail=trillionalyssa@gmail.com; dkim=pass
 header.i=@gmail.com
Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com
Precedence: list
Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com
List-ID: <lojban.googlegroups.com>
X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417
List-Post: <http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/post?hl=en_US>, <mailto:lojban@googlegroups.com>
List-Help: <http://groups.google.com/support/?hl=en_US>, <mailto:lojban+help@googlegroups.com>
List-Archive: <http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en_US>
Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com
List-Subscribe: <http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/subscribe?hl=en_US>, <mailto:lojban+subscribe@googlegroups.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/subscribe?hl=en_US>, <mailto:googlegroups-manage+1004133512417+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; 
	boundary="----=_Part_1219_229748.1346506679938"
X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/)
X-Spam_score: -0.7
X-Spam_score_int: -6
X-Spam_bar: /

------=_Part_1219_229748.1346506679938
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

I've always thought of {sei} as introducing a comment about the text 
without regard for the meaning of the text. For example, you could say 
{broda sei mu da lerfu}, and {broda sei xlali} should be taken to mean "I 
think {broda} was a bad word choice".

On Saturday, September 1, 2012 8:26:28 AM UTC-4, la gleki wrote:
>
>
>
> On Saturday, September 1, 2012 4:03:52 PM UTC+4, tijlan wrote:
>>
>> On 30 August 2012 17:32, la gleki <gleki.is...@gmail.com> wrote: 
>> > Can't we clearly define UI in terms of {sei broda} after all? 
>> > So you are saying that {.a'o}={sei kanpe je djica}, right? 
>>
>> {a'o} and {kanpe je djica} seem to generally mean the same kind of 
>> emotion, yes. 
>>
>> Some notes: 
>> {ui} is a direct expression of happiness, whereas {(zo'e) gleki} is a 
>> descriptive statement that someone feels / felt / will feel happiness 
>> -- same emotion, different functions. Also, with {ui}, the experiencer 
>> is the speaker by default; with {sei gleki}, it can be non-speakers. 
>> {sei gleki} can be used to translate adverbial stuff, such as 
>> "happily", whose explicit or implicit subject (x1) can be other than 
>> the speaker. So, the {sei broda} form cannot always substitute for or 
>> define UI. 
>>
>  
> Well, I guess {.ei=sei bilga} not {.ei=sei mi bilga} ?
> I want all UI-cmavo translated to {sei ko'a broda} form.
>
>
>
>>
>> > Can you also derive {.ai} from {.au}? 
>>
>> Does {ai} always imply {au}? Probably not. One can intend but not want 
>> to pay a tax. 
>> Does {au} always imply {ai}? Probably not. One can want but not intend 
>> to go to Mars. 
>>
>>
>> mu'o 
>>
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/lojban/-/7bozf9oQjSwJ.
To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en.


------=_Part_1219_229748.1346506679938
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I've always thought of {sei} as introducing a comment about the text withou=
t regard for the meaning of the text. For example, you could say {broda sei=
 mu da lerfu}, and {broda sei xlali} should be taken to mean "I think {brod=
a} was a bad word choice".<br><br>On Saturday, September 1, 2012 8:26:28 AM=
 UTC-4, la gleki wrote:<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0=
;margin-left: 0.8ex;border-left: 1px #ccc solid;padding-left: 1ex;"><br><br=
>On Saturday, September 1, 2012 4:03:52 PM UTC+4, tijlan wrote:<blockquote =
class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0;margin-left:0.8ex;border-left:1px #=
ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">On 30 August 2012 17:32, la gleki &lt;<a>gleki.=
is...@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:
<br>&gt; Can't we clearly define UI in terms of {sei broda} after all?
<br>&gt; So you are saying that {.a'o}=3D{sei kanpe je djica}, right?
<br>
<br>{a'o} and {kanpe je djica} seem to generally mean the same kind of emot=
ion, yes.
<br>
<br>Some notes:
<br>{ui} is a direct expression of happiness, whereas {(zo'e) gleki} is a
<br>descriptive statement that someone feels / felt / will feel happiness
<br>-- same emotion, different functions. Also, with {ui}, the experiencer
<br>is the speaker by default; with {sei gleki}, it can be non-speakers.
<br>{sei gleki} can be used to translate adverbial stuff, such as
<br>"happily", whose explicit or implicit subject (x1) can be other than
<br>the speaker. So, the {sei broda} form cannot always substitute for or
<br>define UI.
<br></blockquote><div>&nbsp;</div><div>Well, I guess {.ei=3Dsei bilga} not =
{.ei=3Dsei mi bilga} ?</div><div>I want all UI-cmavo translated to {sei ko'=
a broda} form.</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmai=
l_quote" style=3D"margin:0;margin-left:0.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;pad=
ding-left:1ex">
<br>
<br>&gt; Can you also derive {.ai} from {.au}?
<br>
<br>Does {ai} always imply {au}? Probably not. One can intend but not want
<br>to pay a tax.
<br>Does {au} always imply {ai}? Probably not. One can want but not intend
<br>to go to Mars.
<br>
<br>
<br>mu'o
<br></blockquote></blockquote>

<p></p>

-- <br />
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "=
lojban" group.<br />
To view this discussion on the web visit <a href=3D"https://groups.google.c=
om/d/msg/lojban/-/7bozf9oQjSwJ">https://groups.google.com/d/msg/lojban/-/7b=
ozf9oQjSwJ</a>.<br />=20
To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.<br />
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou=
ps.com.<br />

For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban=
?hl=3Den.<br />



------=_Part_1219_229748.1346506679938--