I suppose the idea he= re is {sei} as a sort of stage direction, the usual "Alice said" supplement= ed now by comments about Alice's presumed state of mind. Using this f= or {a'o} and the like seems misguided, because 1) they are not metalinguist= ic, but part of the speech stream -- not someone els'e remark, but the spea= kers expression; 2) they are not truthvalued, as the {sei} comments are.

From: triliyn <trillionalyssa@gmail.= com>
To: lojban@googlegroups.com
Sent: Saturday, September 1, 2012 8:37 AM
Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: Is there any real diffren= ce between hope (.a'o) and desire (.au)?

I've always thought of {sei} as introducing a com= ment about the text without regard for the meaning of the text. For example= , you could say {broda sei mu da lerfu}, and {broda sei xlali} should be ta= ken to mean "I think {broda} was a bad word choice".

On Saturday, Se= ptember 1, 2012 8:26:28 AM UTC-4, la gleki wrote:

On Saturday, September 1, 2012 4:03:52 = PM UTC+4, tijlan wrote:
gleki= .is...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Can't we clearly define UI in terms of {sei broda} after all?
> So you are saying that {.a'o}=3D{sei kanpe je djica}, right?

{a'o} and {kanpe je djica} seem to generally mean the same kind of emot= ion, yes.

Some notes:
{ui} is a direct expression of happiness, whereas {(zo'e) gleki} is a
descriptive statement that someone feels / felt / will feel happiness
-- same emotion, different functions. Also, with {ui}, the experiencer
is the speaker by default; with {sei gleki}, it can be non-speakers.
{sei gleki} can be used to translate adverbial stuff, such as
"happily", whose explicit or implicit subject (x1) can be other than
the speaker. So, the {sei broda} form cannot always substitute for or
define UI.

Well, I guess {.ei=3Dsei bilga} not = {.ei=3Dsei mi bilga} ?
I want all UI-cmavo translated to {sei ko'= a broda} form.

> Can you also derive {.ai} from {.au}?

Does {ai} always imply {au}? Probably not. One can intend but not want
to pay a tax.
Does {au} always imply {ai}? Probably not. One can want but not intend
to go to Mars.

mu'o

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://= groups.google.com/d/msg/lojban/-/7bozf9oQjSwJ.
=20 To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den.