Received: from mail-ob0-f189.google.com ([209.85.214.189]:51724) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1T7rqB-0003wh-3X; Sat, 01 Sep 2012 10:50:43 -0700 Received: by obbun3 with SMTP id un3sf3653180obb.16 for ; Sat, 01 Sep 2012 10:50:32 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=20120806; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:message-id:date:from:user-agent :mime-version:to:subject:references:in-reply-to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=qIFbO1Z/hzq8arFiWz+CZTUu+NkyK19OkcUFYfKvGII=; b=SbJszb4qWdofBIIbXukm7QO8BnmxIa9MjsXqSEEMTFuofTvAK3lBhlQMoYN2rvDpJl Vr8AFQaevUnAutB4qyqszUf+MRToI1jn6TB/AdmxEzaFdMnCXvsfJ+DElnsU/w+b29bA FRee+e0sww11uQ1Wfucs3r0WSyEG2krXGETcIW+XLGDR1lDFAYNf3lIdKae6Jkwf0VYM wp68ZA8nP71GeHq2HBRSCZAvUaMw9vOBV7mGgNBMq6g5oj4KL5ZmSO83pYyoWEcS1DWc UE4H4NQ6wScb837vrOMDbiKA8tZwUjiWrbY2FXzmLjK+E3gVWR18u0QOANSHe6HlJi6j 4Dww== Received: by 10.50.42.170 with SMTP id p10mr1539277igl.3.1346521832477; Sat, 01 Sep 2012 10:50:32 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.231.55.155 with SMTP id u27ls8667622ibg.8.gmail; Sat, 01 Sep 2012 10:50:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.43.105.135 with SMTP id dq7mr6004616icc.3.1346521831834; Sat, 01 Sep 2012 10:50:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.43.105.135 with SMTP id dq7mr6004614icc.3.1346521831824; Sat, 01 Sep 2012 10:50:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ie0-f173.google.com (mail-ie0-f173.google.com [209.85.223.173]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id rf8si1578932igb.2.2012.09.01.10.50.31 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Sat, 01 Sep 2012 10:50:31 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of celestialcognition@gmail.com designates 209.85.223.173 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.223.173; Received: by iebc10 with SMTP id c10so3161104ieb.18 for ; Sat, 01 Sep 2012 10:50:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.50.182.226 with SMTP id eh2mr6448254igc.69.1346521831717; Sat, 01 Sep 2012 10:50:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.0.1.103] (76-76-236-67.lisco.net. [76.76.236.67]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 10sm8412050igf.11.2012.09.01.10.50.30 (version=SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Sat, 01 Sep 2012 10:50:31 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <50424AE3.3090902@gmail.com> Date: Sat, 01 Sep 2012 12:50:27 -0500 From: vitci'i User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux i686; rv:14.0) Gecko/20120714 Thunderbird/14.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: lojban@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [lojban] First doubts References: In-Reply-To: X-Original-Sender: celestialcognition@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of celestialcognition@gmail.com designates 209.85.223.173 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=celestialcognition@gmail.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Spam_score: -0.7 X-Spam_score_int: -6 X-Spam_bar: / On 09/01/2012 03:56 AM, Greezael Think wrote: > -Pronunciation. First, I'm a native Spanish speaker, so it's possible that > I find it difficult just because its differences with Spanish. But I'm > pretty sure differentiating "j" and "c" is difficult for everyone. I've > tried hard, and between vowels I can use them, but for example I can't say > "lojban" and make it sound different from an hypothetical "locban". At the > beginning I also had problems with "y", but even if it can be difficult to > pronounce, at least is easy to see how it's a different sound from the > others. Unfortunately, it's not possible to achieve perfect compatibility with every language, though Lojban does try to minimize this sort of thing. English speakers have similar difficulty distinguishing {k} from {x} or {x} from {'}, and a lot of us get it wrong. {j} is voiced, like {d}, {b}, {g}. If you draw it out you make a noise like a motorcycle engine revving. {c} in unvoiced, like {t}, {p}, {k}. If you draw it out you make a noise like two sheets of paper sliding past each other. http://soundcloud.com/caravandeadbolt/lojban-jy-cy -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en.