Received: from mail-gh0-f189.google.com ([209.85.160.189]:48814)
	by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128)
	(Exim 4.76)
	(envelope-from <lojban+bncBCOJVK5DTQPRBB6SYWBAKGQE77MGANA@googlegroups.com>)
	id 1TC1a7-0005ti-U1; Wed, 12 Sep 2012 22:03:20 -0700
Received: by ghbf16 with SMTP id f16sf2107093ghb.16
        for <multiple recipients>; Wed, 12 Sep 2012 22:03:09 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;
        d=googlegroups.com; s=20120806;
        h=x-beenthere:mime-version:date:in-reply-to:references:user-agent
         :x-http-useragent:message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender
         :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list
         :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender
         :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type
         :content-transfer-encoding;
        bh=u0B139YSW6RCrnpjccMvIl58oUpI6L0kLQN9v7ezQfM=;
        b=CxP2rJ2zuIBdRI2jJ/MsmV5h+rgzwfwIN1ZglJK3N0BufBkvxS06o7DRhFHiTEYSU2
         qRfD7cMcr2lYb7yLw+M7s4zMB+qTK8+N1Af91B3KSBJr24XYH7zgolTITnh32fsOh7JH
         3wqTGW0BVL/jQaahp2+A9RTml3FPNnCj30uE3oXsioJgXvkuZTtF//oNpP3/nwc0xBV7
         CWdgrhsfdAz6anAq6SYxAPJaRG/rii9bnVpcLXX/ebr0DcIuOq81w205pmHfshwC2h0i
         pK6OjoGB+tWnZ3dscGzxdHyKjZPiw15upOCiwAYSeLgBljcNpUmflramguMOrL9Czwpx
         41YQ==
Received: by 10.68.233.130 with SMTP id tw2mr261050pbc.12.1347512583653;
        Wed, 12 Sep 2012 22:03:03 -0700 (PDT)
X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com
Received: by 10.68.194.202 with SMTP id hy10ls7666483pbc.0.gmail; Wed, 12 Sep
 2012 22:03:03 -0700 (PDT)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Received: by 10.68.244.73 with SMTP id xe9mr266526pbc.10.1347512582961; Wed,
 12 Sep 2012 22:03:02 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by q7g2000pbj.googlegroups.com with HTTP; Wed, 12 Sep 2012 22:03:02
 -0700 (PDT)
Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2012 22:03:02 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <8447e673-8c13-4ce1-a699-b3c40985bcc6@googlegroups.com>
References: <989a467e-d2ab-4755-9a8c-8f7ec87c4b33@googlegroups.com>
 <ff425d59-acce-478e-a71b-301abeff2de9@googlegroups.com> <876a27bb-9c98-4540-8664-da0b464d5c71@googlegroups.com>
 <CALm==BUF1R9sKE+23bazqrbFgPBGfLbVDW5xTafKPwrua4smNw@mail.gmail.com>
 <416a0fc0-eaaa-4648-9085-918c7ec6c849@googlegroups.com> <071bb4c6-35dc-4555-a6d0-7e011da19faa@kg10g2000pbc.googlegroups.com>
 <8447e673-8c13-4ce1-a699-b3c40985bcc6@googlegroups.com>
User-Agent: G2/1.0
X-HTTP-UserAgent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux i686) AppleWebKit/535.19 (KHTML,
 like Gecko) Ubuntu/10.04 Chromium/18.0.1025.151 Chrome/18.0.1025.151 Safari/535.19,gzip(gfe)
Message-ID: <00252ba2-6cb8-4901-9cd3-7d8c9ce755f4@q7g2000pbj.googlegroups.com>
Subject: [lojban] Re: Any volunteers for "Phrasebook. A multilingual
 dictionary"? (No Lojban skills required)
From: guskant <gusni.kantu@gmail.com>
To: lojban <lojban@googlegroups.com>
X-Original-Sender: gusni.kantu@gmail.com
X-Original-Authentication-Results: ls.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain
 of gusni.kantu@gmail.com designates internal as permitted sender)
 smtp.mail=gusni.kantu@gmail.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com
Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com
Precedence: list
Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com
List-ID: <lojban.googlegroups.com>
X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417
List-Post: <http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/post?hl=en_US>, <mailto:lojban@googlegroups.com>
List-Help: <http://groups.google.com/support/?hl=en_US>, <mailto:lojban+help@googlegroups.com>
List-Archive: <http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en_US>
Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com
List-Subscribe: <http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/subscribe?hl=en_US>, <mailto:lojban+subscribe@googlegroups.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/subscribe?hl=en_US>, <mailto:googlegroups-manage+1004133512417+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/)
X-Spam_score: -0.7
X-Spam_score_int: -6
X-Spam_bar: /

You did not answer my question: "Do you aim at giving a phrasebook
only for English speakers?"

If yes, I intend neither to prevent English speakers talking malglico
in Lojbanistan, nor to take part in the phrasebook for English-
speaking travellers; I will leave it as it is. If no, I don't agree
with the method with English column detached to the left end because
of the reasons I have already written.

mu'o


On Sep 13, 1:01=A0pm, la gleki <gleki.is.my.n...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Thursday, September 13, 2012 1:30:37 AM UTC+4, guskant wrote:
>
> > Do you aim at giving a phrasebook only for English speakers? If so, I
> > have no interest in it; if not, I would like to make some comments.
>
> > Because the column on the left end is not Lojban but English,
> > translators translate the phrases naturally from English. This method
> > simply establishes malglico.
>
> > For example the greetings: I opine only the phrases {coi}, {co'o} and
> > {pei} are enough for the list.
>
> > Distinction of the time of a day, as well as meaning of each word used
> > in the greetings, depends on the language. For example in Japanese,
> > they use neither {xamgu} nor {cerni} but {clira} for the greeting of
> > the morning or the beginning of working time (even in the nighttime);
> > neither {xamgu} nor {lerci} nor {donri} but {lo cabdei zo'u} for the
> > greeting of the daytime; there is no specific greeting of the
> > afternoon. If you suppose non-English speakers to be readers of the
> > phrasebook, these malglico may be great defects.
>
> > If you put the column of Lojban on the left end and reduce the
> > greeting phrases to {coi}, {co'o} and {pei}, translators may produce
> > plural translations for one Lojban phrase, and it's enough for a
> > phrasebook of common use. Lojban speakers may add {xamgu}, {cerni},
> > {clira}, {lerci}, {donri} etc. as they like, but these words are
> > useless for a phrasebook of common use.
>
> > Other categories are also dotted with malglico. For example, {do nanca
> > ma --- mi li repa nanca}.
> > I opine they are talking about the lifetime, not the actual age.
>
> > {nanca} is a gismu with x2 as quantity. When we talk about a
> > continuum, the universe of discourse includes habitually the whole
> > body of the continuum. Moreover, "Numbers need never be specified, but
> > if they are specified they must be correct" (CLL 6.6). With these
> > preconditions, using the phrase {mi li repa nanca} for the actual age
> > is incorrect.
>
> > For clearness, suppose you measure the length of a canal about 500
> > metres long with your average step length. You begin with one end of
> > the canal, and walk along the bank toward the other end counting the
> > number of steps. When you come near to the middle of the canal, I ask
> > you {lo naxle cu mitre ma}. If you answer {lo naxle li remuno mitre},
> > it is simply incorrect, because the universe of discourse includes the
> > whole canal, and the length of it should be {mitre li ji'i munono}. If
> > you want to answer the length of the part you have already measured,
> > you need to mention the endpoint(s) of the measurement {ta bi'i ti li
> > remuno mitre}, or add {za'u}: {lo naxle li za'u remuno mitre}. The
> > same discussion can be applied to {nanca}. I would say {do ca ze'e pu
> > nanca ma --- li repa / mi li repa ca ze'e pu nanca} to talk about the
> > actual age, and {do nanca ma --- li za'u repa / mi li za'u repa nanca}
> > to talk about the lifetime.
>
> Please make corrections to the phrasebook. I think English should be
> detached.
>
> The general idea is that you visit any country (even if it's Lojbanistan)=
,
> open two columns (in your mother tongue) and in the language of the count=
ry
> you are visiting. The phrasebook must give you the ability to speak
> (given that you have some knowledge of the language).
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > mu'o

--=20
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "=
lojban" group.
To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou=
ps.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban=
?hl=3Den.