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Am 14.09.2012 22:52, schrieb Michael Turniansky:
>   Well, of course, I haven't seen the debate yet (still being more=20
> than 3 weeks behind on email) and therefore don't know if you've=20
> already addressed the following question,

It happened long ago, I can't remember when exactly, but it's been=20
almost a year, but at least half a year.

> but EVEN IF I accept arguendo your statement that "ua" is a CV=20
> (although I don't), then you must ALSO assert that "iu" is a CV.

Yes, iu is CV (bearing though that this C is not the same type of C that=20
is used to create brivla clusters under the current rules. changing this=20
would in theory be possible however, which would cause things like bioka=20
to be CCVCV brivla. not currently the case, however.)

> So how do you distinguish between "iu isai..." and  "i ui sai..." if=20
> all the person put down (as here) was "iuisai..."?

The problem here is because it is technically accepted to elide denpa bu=20
when a space is present, people aren't sure when denpa bu is actually=20
necessary and when it isn't. It also makes people confused about what=20
the point of the letter is. I encourage to always include all denpa bu=20
that are necessary and to elide all that can be elided if one so wishes.

If you write down "iu isai" then that becomes {iu .i sai}. If you write=20
it down without spaces, which is the more interesting case and more=20
closely resembles the actual speechstream, then you have to make sure=20
the automatic initial denpa bu that people are using does what you want=20
it to do. {iuisai} would become {.i ui sai} if you allow denpa bu to be=20
elided. If not, it would be ungrammatical (because after iu, the next i=20
is not a lojban word and it fails to parse).

> (And let's not forget that plenty of combinations like "iau" are valid=20
> in names and fu'ivla and are different than "i au and ia u"  The=20
> pauses need to be present to distinguish, or there has to be an=20
> unambiguous rule of decomposition, which I don't believe there can be,=20
> but I will wait further commenting upon my reading of what youve=20
> already written onthe topic.

There is indeed such a rule of decomposition and only because it exists=20
can I in good conscience preach this. You just need to be aware that the=20
semi-vowels are not vowels, they are [w] and [j] in IPA respectively. If=20
you consider speechstreams, then those are distinct from the actual=20
Lojban vowels (V). "iua" is only possible in cmevla and zi'evla. A cmavo=20
can't have three VVV in a row, so the cmavo clusters always decompose=20
unambiguously. If I didn't answer all your questions, please feel free=20
to through more questions or tests at me.

mu'o mi'e la selpa'i

--=20
pilno zo le xu .i lo dei bangu cu se cmene zo lojbo .e nai zo lejbo

do=E1=BB=8B m=C3=A8lbi mlen=C3=AC'u
    .i do c=C3=A0tlu ki'u
ma fe la x=C3=A0mpre =C5=ADu
    .i do t=C3=ACnsa c=C3=A0rmi
gi'e s=C3=ACrji se t=C3=A0rmi
    .i ta=E1=BB=8B bo pu c=C3=ACtka lo gr=C3=A0na ku

--=20
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