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Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2012 18:42:55 -0400
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Subject: Re: [lojban] Yacht
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It's a general peeve of mine.  People seem to expect that there must be 
*a* word that *exactly* translates some nuance of meaning that their 
native language happens to encapsulate in one lexeme.  A lojban of all 
fu'ivla is hardly a Lojban.  And even if you find one, even if there 
*is* a good lujvo for it, I'm still not sure you shouldn't fall back on 
the general gismu term once it's been introduced, or at least for 
variety in the text, like a synonym.

We've also got the brod* series.  Mathematicians have no problem 
defining their specialized operations at the beginning of a paper and 
then using the symbols.  Particularly for technical or even slightly 
technical work, it's quite reasonable to explain these concepts you're 
going to be using, and take your time and don't try to cram them all 
into a lujvo, and simple use {ce'u} to assign it to a brod*, or even 
better, to a nonce lujvo that people reading the paper will now be able 
to understand even though it is highly simplified.

And don't get me started on fu'ivla...

~mark

On 09/14/2012 05:57 PM, .arpis. wrote:
> I'm not averse to that.
>
> On Fri, Sep 14, 2012 at 5:16 PM, Mark E. Shoulson <mark@kli.org 
> <mailto:mark@kli.org>> wrote:
>
>     On 09/14/2012 03:00 PM, .arpis. wrote:
>
>         It seems to me against the spirit of lojban to try to define a
>         lujvo to mean something so specific (and culturally specific)
>         as "yacht"; I'd use {surblo} to mean "boat used for
>         relaxation" and let context disambiguate whether I meant
>         cruise ship or yacht.
>
>     I have yet to be convinced that simply {bloti} isn't sufficient.
>      It depends on the context, of course, but even if you need to say
>     it's a yacht and not just a boat, why not _explain what you mean_,
>     in lujvo, tanru, even whole phrases, and then just call it a
>     {bloti} from then on?
>
>     ~mark
>
>
>     -- 
>     You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
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>
>
>
> -- 
> mu'o mi'e .arpis.
>
> -- 
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    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">It's a general peeve of mine.&nbsp; People
      seem to expect that there must be *a* word that *exactly*
      translates some nuance of meaning that their native language
      happens to encapsulate in one lexeme.&nbsp; A lojban of all fu'ivla is
      hardly a Lojban.&nbsp; And even if you find one, even if there *is* a
      good lujvo for it, I'm still not sure you shouldn't fall back on
      the general gismu term once it's been introduced, or at least for
      variety in the text, like a synonym.<br>
      <br>
      We've also got the brod* series.&nbsp; Mathematicians have no problem
      defining their specialized operations at the beginning of a paper
      and then using the symbols.&nbsp; Particularly for technical or even
      slightly technical work, it's quite reasonable to explain these
      concepts you're going to be using, and take your time and don't
      try to cram them all into a lujvo, and simple use {ce'u} to assign
      it to a brod*, or even better, to a nonce lujvo that people
      reading the paper will now be able to understand even though it is
      highly simplified.<br>
      <br>
      And don't get me started on fu'ivla...<br>
      <br>
      ~mark<br>
      <br>
      On 09/14/2012 05:57 PM, .arpis. wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote
cite="mid:CALm==BXP32svBdmFuhLpYyQt5LPReQ_e6Qmx7i+-rRBjMEkCsQ@mail.gmail.com"
      type="cite">I'm not averse to that.<br>
      <br>
      <div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Sep 14, 2012 at 5:16 PM, Mark E.
        Shoulson <span dir="ltr">&lt;<a moz-do-not-send="true"
            href="mailto:mark@kli.org" target="_blank">mark@kli.org</a>&gt;</span>
        wrote:<br>
        <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
          .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
          <div class="im">On 09/14/2012 03:00 PM, .arpis. wrote:<br>
            <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
              .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
              It seems to me against the spirit of lojban to try to
              define a lujvo to mean something so specific (and
              culturally specific) as "yacht"; I'd use {surblo} to mean
              "boat used for relaxation" and let context disambiguate
              whether I meant cruise ship or yacht.<br>
            </blockquote>
          </div>
          I have yet to be convinced that simply {bloti} isn't
          sufficient. &nbsp;It depends on the context, of course, but even if
          you need to say it's a yacht and not just a boat, why not
          _explain what you mean_, in lujvo, tanru, even whole phrases,
          and then just call it a {bloti} from then on?<span
            class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888"><br>
              <br>
              ~mark</font></span>
          <div class="HOEnZb">
            <div class="h5"><br>
              <br>
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        </blockquote>
      </div>
      <br>
      <br clear="all">
      <br>
      -- <br>
      mu'o mi'e .arpis.<br>
      <br>
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