Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2012 08:54:01 -0700 (PDT)
From: la gleki <gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com>
To: lojban@googlegroups.com
Cc: jsemeria92@gmail.com
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Subject: [lojban] Re: CCL and xorlo
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xorlo changed almost nothing. And some even don't want to use {le} anymore.
http://www.lojban.org/tiki/BPFK+Section%3A+gadri

So you can read on CLL without worrying of any major outdated things. {le} 
is just used much less. That's all.
Here is the CLL http://dag.github.com/cll/ with some corrections. xorlo is 
not included there. But there is nothing bad in it. The first link give 
answers to everything.

On Wednesday, September 19, 2012 2:16:47 PM UTC+4, jseme...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> I was just wondering if anyone is working on updating the CCL (or any 
> learning materials for that matter) to correct for xorlo?
>
> I remember hearing or reading somewhere (for the life of me I can't recall 
> the source) a few days ago that it was being worked on but I've failed to 
> find any information about such a thing. I only ask because I want to try 
> taking a crack at learning lojban again but I'd rather wait until the 
> online CCL thing is updated with xorlo. I find the thought of learning 
> lojban while trying to figure out how it really works with xorlo instead. 
> Leads to me being very confused and frustrated I suppose. So I occasionally 
> click on the lojban website, check to see if the CCL has had xorlo 
> incorporated and it never is so I end it at that. Rinse and repeat. 
>
> I really could go through the effort of course, but I'm a weirdo who's 
> mind does not work in his own favor, so I frustrate easily, constantly 
> obsessing over learning it right the first time and not worrying that this 
> xorlo thing. I like learning from the CCL, reading over all the details and 
> quirks of the language, its like a fun language puzzle to me. It makes me 
> think a lot, and makes me want to write stuff and explore this language 
> like an odd puzzle. I'm nerdy like that I suppose. So having one resource 
> without having to mentally wonder wtf is different in actual current lojban 
> use since there seems to be no way to learn lojban post-xorlo like I want. 
> So it seems my two options are: learn lojban as it currently resides within 
> the online reference grammar book thing, then after all that update my 
> knowledge to accommodate the xorlo proposal, or have the xorlo proposal 
> page in another tab (as i've done before) while reading the section of the 
> CCL (I forget the acronym for the online version, my apologies) reading 
> that and switching between the two and rewriting the info to incorporate 
> xorlo. But I seem to lose motivation quite quickly unfortunately due to the 
> daunting task, and remembering that I probably would have to go through the 
> rest of the book as well to update stuff. I don't know, I'm crazy I guess.
>
> Now moving past that rambling nonsense I'll come to my second question, 
> how long ago was this xorlo proposal approved? I don't know about the date 
> but I think its safe to say at least three years, I really don't know 
> however. So why is it in all that time, there seems to have been no attempt 
> (or rather no successful attempts) of changing the learning materials for 
> this xorlo thing? Its a pretty big change in the language, though not too 
> big I suppose. And for a newbie like me at least, seeing this big change 
> and trying to learn with all the materials not using it, is very confusing 
> and for me at least because as previously stated I am crazy, frustrating. 
> Perhaps its a lot of work, in fact I know it is and I am very appreciative 
> to anyone and everyone who has worked on lojban and teaching those curious. 
> And I know there is a lot of work being done right now on aspects of the 
> language, though I don't have much knowledge about what exactly this work 
> is. From what I know its going over cmavo mostly and doing important things 
> like finishing the language but again I'm not quite sure exactly how people 
> are doing that. I'm very glad this is happening and people are doing this, 
> but it seems all the effort is going towards "perfecting" the language 
> which is quite a noble goal, but seems to be taking all the effort away 
> from getting the language to grow. And by that I mean, getting more people 
> to learn lojban and grow the community. The extra interest may lead to 
> extra man power for all of this work I suspect.
>
> Perhaps I'm wrong about all this, I admit I'm not very knowledgeable about 
> the community at the moment. So I was just wondering what's going on with 
> things these days? I'm trying trying to get back into lojban, but I feel as 
> though at the moment that its not worth getting into if the community is 
> divided and/or isn't quite focused on gaining more members to lojban. I'm 
> not stating that is a fact at all, perhaps its exactly the opposite, I'm 
> simply stating what it currently feels like to me at least. 
>
> P.S. Thank you for reading and sorry for rambling on too long, I tend to 
> do that when I type late at night lol.
>

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xorlo changed almost nothing. And some even don't want to use {le} anymore.=
<div><a href=3D"http://www.lojban.org/tiki/BPFK+Section%3A+gadri">http://ww=
w.lojban.org/tiki/BPFK+Section%3A+gadri</a></div><div><br></div><div>So you=
 can read on CLL without worrying of any major outdated things. {le} is jus=
t used much less. That's all.<br>Here is the CLL http://dag.github.com/cll/=
 with some corrections. xorlo is not included there. But there is nothing b=
ad in it. The first link give answers to everything.<br><br>On Wednesday, S=
eptember 19, 2012 2:16:47 PM UTC+4, jseme...@gmail.com wrote:<blockquote cl=
ass=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0;margin-left: 0.8ex;border-left: 1px =
#ccc solid;padding-left: 1ex;">I was just wondering if anyone is working on=
 updating the CCL (or any learning materials for that matter) to correct fo=
r xorlo?<br><br>I remember hearing or reading somewhere (for the life of me=
 I can't recall the source) a few days ago that it was being worked on but =
I've failed to find any information about such a thing. I only ask because =
I want to try taking a crack at learning lojban again but I'd rather wait u=
ntil the online CCL thing is updated with xorlo. I find the thought of lear=
ning lojban while trying to figure out how it really works with xorlo inste=
ad. Leads to me being very confused and frustrated I suppose. So I occasion=
ally click on the lojban website, check to see if the CCL has had xorlo inc=
orporated and it never is so I end it at that. Rinse and repeat. <br><br>I =
really could go through the effort of course, but I'm a weirdo who's mind d=
oes not work in his own favor, so I frustrate easily, constantly obsessing =
over learning it right the first time and not worrying that this xorlo thin=
g. I like learning from the CCL, reading over all the details and quirks of=
 the language, its like a fun language puzzle to me. It makes me think a lo=
t, and makes me want to write stuff and explore this language like an odd p=
uzzle. I'm nerdy like that I suppose. So having one resource without having=
 to mentally wonder wtf is different in actual current lojban use since the=
re seems to be no way to learn lojban post-xorlo like I want. So it seems m=
y two options are: learn lojban as it currently resides within the online r=
eference grammar book thing, then after all that update my knowledge to acc=
ommodate the xorlo proposal, or have the xorlo proposal page in another tab=
 (as i've done before) while reading the section of the CCL (I forget the a=
cronym for the online version, my apologies) reading that and switching bet=
ween the two and rewriting the info to incorporate xorlo. But I seem to los=
e motivation quite quickly unfortunately due to the daunting task, and reme=
mbering that I probably would have to go through the rest of the book as we=
ll to update stuff. I don't know, I'm crazy I guess.<br><br>Now moving past=
 that rambling nonsense I'll come to my second question, how long ago was t=
his xorlo proposal approved? I don't know about the date but I think its sa=
fe to say at least three years, I really don't know however. So why is it i=
n all that time, there seems to have been no attempt (or rather no successf=
ul attempts) of changing the learning materials for this xorlo thing? Its a=
 pretty big change in the language, though not too big I suppose. And for a=
 newbie like me at least, seeing this big change and trying to learn with a=
ll the materials not using it, is very confusing and for me at least becaus=
e as previously stated I am crazy, frustrating. Perhaps its a lot of work, =
in fact I know it is and I am very appreciative to anyone and everyone who =
has worked on lojban and teaching those curious. And I know there is a lot =
of work being done right now on aspects of the language, though I don't hav=
e much knowledge about what exactly this work is. From what I know its goin=
g over cmavo mostly and doing important things like finishing the language =
but again I'm not quite sure exactly how people are doing that. I'm very gl=
ad this is happening and people are doing this, but it seems all the effort=
 is going towards "perfecting" the language which is quite a noble goal, bu=
t seems to be taking all the effort away from getting the language to grow.=
 And by that I mean, getting more people to learn lojban and grow the commu=
nity. The extra interest may lead to extra man power for all of this work I=
 suspect.<br><br>Perhaps I'm wrong about all this, I admit I'm not very kno=
wledgeable about the community at the moment. So I was just wondering what'=
s going on with things these days? I'm trying trying to get back into lojba=
n, but I feel as though at the moment that its not worth getting into if th=
e community is divided and/or isn't quite focused on gaining more members t=
o lojban. I'm not stating that is a fact at all, perhaps its exactly the op=
posite, I'm simply stating what it currently feels like to me at least. <br=
><br>P.S. Thank you for reading and sorry for rambling on too long, I tend =
to do that when I type late at night lol.<br></blockquote></div>

<p></p>

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