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[98.138.91.157]) by gmr-mx.google.com with SMTP id xd1si4382159igb.1.2012.09.19.13.24.21; Wed, 19 Sep 2012 13:24:21 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: best guess record for domain of kali9putra@yahoo.com designates 98.138.91.157 as permitted sender) client-ip=98.138.91.157; Received: from [98.138.90.55] by nm27.bullet.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 19 Sep 2012 20:24:21 -0000 Received: from [98.138.226.166] by tm8.bullet.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 19 Sep 2012 20:24:21 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by omp1067.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 19 Sep 2012 20:24:21 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 181818.43360.bm@omp1067.mail.ne1.yahoo.com Received: (qmail 87559 invoked from network); 19 Sep 2012 20:24:21 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 X-YMail-OSG: 4BF2t3kVM1kqB8fbECtC4YEvym9obIFGEcO9ddX.6.XnJFF IhkcZcF0w5c0dn7NZJi00gIKZXYYcOP39lD3DxI8B2TjUsHJHUDGIJAB3L5e lC7I.o8hUbZAWfI2smLtkVAjzp2ftzfci2vA.tImvXnsa.zR4L714_yKwER6 lwfJA307PMVcYTBkX7cZ86cC96YXG4Db2RK381fSUunDbiQa6ioOXetwvZHd 4P.vxjA9WwnG892SvQUQX0oLVf8RFfwaA7KTP.9sYj_r8ppDOYZcvS1GL7eP iUMvaPUzmVrXzWHftYO7cY.0G5VWfYCqeG58hmz5xdVkcQ3zzsxkpPU7F9kY UWmIvDZi4W3ewY00NPphljkbPRhtG47SDXs9QBI4N3QQ.aG_2dLQbVjI5RpG tBvh_ORfxPNzWm41rpiSoXvQVGr9HyqymH2PuTuSEVhQ8b0IyXYQCaPJcvB. nJ.cvMkk4mJue3Dm_tK8y_VDkGPssltAghYsrlN0rFfDGN2j6uVjHlpN4ZBO 08D4_uIyM3BYZm9qavSfy0IEKfOa7AalGkHlw8cg9oB2uOFRKG7Y- X-Yahoo-SMTP: xvGyF4GswBCIFKGaxf5wSjlg3RF108g- Received: from [10.0.1.4] (kali9putra@99.92.108.194 with xymcookie) by smtp115-mob.biz.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Sep 2012 13:24:20 -0700 PDT References: <7deaac69-374a-4cb2-bff6-b45d8c8c7d31@googlegroups.com> <20120919161914.GB29682@clanspum.net> <505A1989.8030203@gmx.de> In-Reply-To: X-Apple-Yahoo-Original-Message-Folder: AAlojbanery Mime-Version: 1.0 (iPad Mail 8G4) Message-Id: <17AD1E3D-C476-4A69-86E3-E1B42D856E90@yahoo.com> X-Mailer: iPad Mail (8G4) From: "John E. Clifford" X-Apple-Yahoo-Replied-Msgid: 2_0_0_48_16296717_ABzdi2IAALP1UFoikQ6pXilmFpk Subject: Re: [lojban] CCL and xorlo Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2012 15:46:52 -0500 To: "lojban@googlegroups.com" X-Original-Sender: kali9putra@yahoo.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: best guess record for domain of kali9putra@yahoo.com designates 98.138.91.157 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=kali9putra@yahoo.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@yahoo.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-1-413227207 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Spam_score: -0.7 X-Spam_score_int: -6 X-Spam_bar: / --Apple-Mail-1-413227207 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Although it is inappropriate to mention to someone just starting on Lojban,= there is the developing Xorban over on engelang group, which, so far, has = very few selma'o and seems set up to avoid the need for many of the seeming= ly redundant ones in Lojban. Sent from my iPad On Sep 19, 2012, at 2:52 PM, Jacob Errington wrote: > I recall reading once a post by xorxes I think, reducing the selma'o into= a handful, although if I recall correctly, it was pretty drastic. >=20 > .i mi'e la tsani mu'o >=20 > On 19 September 2012 15:43, MorphemeAddict wrote: >=20 >=20 > On Wed, Sep 19, 2012 at 3:14 PM, selpa'i wrote: > Am 19.09.2012 20:59, schrieb MorphemeAddict: >=20 > Looking at the cloud of selma'o (grammatical classes) at vlasisku makes m= e wonder. Is there any way to drastically reduce the number of selma'o? >=20 > There are some ways to reduce it a little bit, for example merging lots o= f connective selma'o (JOI, JA, VUhU) and removing some "unncessary" ones li= ke CAI and NAI and RAhO and moving them all to UI etc. But you'd still end = up with a high number of selma'o I think. Another way to get rid of a lot o= f selma'o is to use grammatical tone, like gua\spi. That language only has = five selma'o. >=20 > This tinkering with the selma'o would result in an insignificant reductio= n in their number. Gua\spi may get by with only five 'selma'o', but it's no= t just because it uses tones.=20 > The large number of Lojban selma'o strikes me as way overblown.=20 >=20 > stevo >=20 > mu'o mi'e la selpa'i >=20 > --=20 > pilno zo le xu .i lo dei bangu cu se cmene zo lojbo .e nai zo lejbo >=20 > do=E1=BB=8B m=C3=A8lbi mlen=C3=AC'u > .i do c=C3=A0tlu ki'u > ma fe la x=C3=A0mpre =C5=ADu > .i do t=C3=ACnsa c=C3=A0rmi > gi'e s=C3=ACrji se t=C3=A0rmi > .i ta=E1=BB=8B bo pu c=C3=ACtka lo gr=C3=A0na ku >=20 >=20 > --=20 > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups= "lojban" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegr= oups.com. > For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojb= an?hl=3Den. >=20 >=20 > --=20 > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups= "lojban" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegr= oups.com. > For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojb= an?hl=3Den. >=20 > --=20 > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups= "lojban" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegr= oups.com. > For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojb= an?hl=3Den. --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den. --Apple-Mail-1-413227207 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
Although it is inappropriate to mentio= n to someone just starting on Lojban, there is the developing Xorban over o= n engelang group, which, so far, has very few selma'o and seems set up to a= void the need for many of the seemingly redundant ones in Lojban.

Se= nt from my iPad

On Sep 19, 2012, at 2:52 PM, Jacob Errington = <nictytan@gmail.com> wrote:=

I recall reading on= ce a post by xorxes I think, reducing the selma'o into a handful, although = if I recall correctly, it was pretty drastic.

.i mi'e la= tsani mu'o

On 19 September 2012 15:43, MorphemeAddict <lytlesw@gmail.com> wrote:


On Wed, Sep 19, 2012 a= t 3:14 PM, selpa'i <seladwa@gmx.de&= gt; wrote:
Am 19.09.2012 20:59, schrieb MorphemeAddict:

Looking at the cloud of selma'o (grammatical classes) at vlasisku makes me = wonder. Is there any way to drastically reduce the number of selma'o?

There are some ways to reduce it a little bit, for example merging lots of = connective selma'o (JOI, JA, VUhU) and removing some "unncessary" ones like= CAI and NAI and RAhO and moving them all to UI etc. But you'd still end up= with a high number of selma'o I think. Another way to get rid of a lot of = selma'o is to use grammatical tone, like gua\spi. That language only has fi= ve selma'o.

This tinkering with the selma'o woul= d result in an insignificant reduction in their number. Gua\spi may get by = with only five 'selma'o', but it's not just because it uses tones. 
The large number of Lojban selma'o strikes me as way overblown. <= /div>

stevo

mu'o mi'e la selpa'i

--
pilno zo le xu .i lo dei bangu cu se cmene zo lojbo .e nai zo lejbo

do=E1=BB=8B m=C3=A8lbi mlen=C3=AC'u
   .i do c=C3=A0tlu ki'u
ma fe la x=C3=A0mpre =C5=ADu
   .i do t=C3=ACnsa c=C3=A0rmi
gi'e s=C3=ACrji se t=C3=A0rmi
   .i ta=E1=BB=8B bo pu c=C3=ACtka lo gr=C3=A0na ku
=


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