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From: Jacob Errington <nictytan@gmail.com>
Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2012 15:17:48 -0400
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Subject: Re: [lojban] baby words, sort of: catlu vs. zgana
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{viska} is a primitive that doesn't require any cognition really. Events
are on a level much higher than light just reflecting off surfaces into a
sensor. I would argue that a camera can viska. By contrast, {catlu}
inherently requires congition and probably volition too, and is definitely
more appropriate for "seeing" events.

.i mi'e la tsani mu'o

On 22 September 2012 15:14, selpa'i <seladwa@gmx.de> wrote:

> Am 22.09.2012 20:50, schrieb Ian Johnson:
>
>  The whole point was that this approach has issues, or at least can be
>> viewed as having issues. Frankly that point has some substance to it.
>> Events don't emit or reflect light, so in a strict sense they cannot be
>> "seen". Arguably {viska} should be our word for strict "seeing".
>>
>
> Apart from that being very inconvenient, it's also very strange in my
> opinion. In
>
>
> mi viska lo plise noi farlu
>
> how do you know that the apple is falling if you only see the apple but
> not the event? Events are just objects in some relation to each other, an=
d
> that arrangement of objects reflects light like any other thing. You can
> see a car moving by it reflecting light to you from different points on i=
ts
> way, or an apple falling.
>
>
>  Am 22.09.2012 21:04, schrieb Jacob Errington:
>>
>>  I believe that it makes sense to {catlu} events, but not to {viska} the=
m.
>>>
>>
> Why?
>
>
> mu'o mi'e la selpa'i
>
> --
> pilno zo le xu .i lo dei bangu cu se cmene zo lojbo .e nai zo lejbo
>
> do=E1=BB=8B m=C3=A8lbi mlen=C3=AC'u
>    .i do c=C3=A0tlu ki'u
> ma fe la x=C3=A0mpre =C5=ADu
>    .i do t=C3=ACnsa c=C3=A0rmi
> gi'e s=C3=ACrji se t=C3=A0rmi
>    .i ta=E1=BB=8B bo pu c=C3=ACtka lo gr=C3=A0na ku
>
> --
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>

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{viska} is a primitive that doesn&#39;t require any cognition really. Event=
s are on a level much higher than light just reflecting off surfaces into a=
 sensor. I would argue that a camera can viska. By contrast, {catlu} inhere=
ntly requires congition and probably volition too, and is definitely more a=
ppropriate for &quot;seeing&quot; events.=C2=A0<div>

<br></div><div>.i mi&#39;e la tsani mu&#39;o<br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quo=
te">On 22 September 2012 15:14, selpa&#39;i <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:seladwa@gmx.de" target=3D"_blank">seladwa@gmx.de</a>&gt;</span> =
wrote:<br>

<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Am 22.09.2012 20:50, schrieb Ian Johnson:<di=
v class=3D"im"><br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
The whole point was that this approach has issues, or at least can be viewe=
d as having issues. Frankly that point has some substance to it. Events don=
&#39;t emit or reflect light, so in a strict sense they cannot be &quot;see=
n&quot;. Arguably {viska} should be our word for strict &quot;seeing&quot;.=
<br>


</blockquote>
<br></div>
Apart from that being very inconvenient, it&#39;s also very strange in my o=
pinion. In<div class=3D"im"><br>
<br>
mi viska lo plise noi farlu<br>
<br></div>
how do you know that the apple is falling if you only see the apple but not=
 the event? Events are just objects in some relation to each other, and tha=
t arrangement of objects reflects light like any other thing. You can see a=
 car moving by it reflecting light to you from different points on its way,=
 or an apple falling.<br>


<br>
<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
Am 22.09.2012 21:04, schrieb Jacob Errington:<div class=3D"im"><br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
I believe that it makes sense to {catlu} events, but not to {viska} them.<b=
r>
</blockquote></div></blockquote>
<br>
Why?<div class=3D"HOEnZb"><div class=3D"h5"><br>
<br>
mu&#39;o mi&#39;e la selpa&#39;i<br>
<br>
-- <br>
pilno zo le xu .i lo dei bangu cu se cmene zo lojbo .e nai zo lejbo<br>
<br>
do=E1=BB=8B m=C3=A8lbi mlen=C3=AC&#39;u<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0.i do c=C3=A0tlu ki&#39;u<br>
ma fe la x=C3=A0mpre =C5=ADu<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0.i do t=C3=ACnsa c=C3=A0rmi<br>
gi&#39;e s=C3=ACrji se t=C3=A0rmi<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0.i ta=E1=BB=8B bo pu c=C3=ACtka lo gr=C3=A0na ku<br>
<br>
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<br>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br></div>

<p></p>

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