Received: from mail-pb0-f61.google.com ([209.85.160.61]:34478)
	by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128)
	(Exim 4.76)
	(envelope-from <lojban+bncBDKM7JENRINRBUPC7CBAKGQESVU7EWY@googlegroups.com>)
	id 1TFXVR-0001Gr-FY; Sat, 22 Sep 2012 14:45:06 -0700
Received: by pbbrp8 with SMTP id rp8sf444999pbb.16
        for <multiple recipients>; Sat, 22 Sep 2012 14:44:51 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;
        d=googlegroups.com; s=20120806;
        h=x-beenthere:received-spf:from:to:subject:date:message-id:user-agent
         :in-reply-to:references:mime-version:x-original-sender
         :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list
         :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender
         :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type;
        bh=5Q0IwC/O8a6JTHYUEohly1jGH18NYBmgk+6rZJ8+OiM=;
        b=guASndbxdA1cMbglHz6SROdXQ8IcviZa4LDKr4SILSUrngu9T2dOeB6KPxdRkLi2Zw
         G7NRbi2EIGJ02vs/HkjN3DhN1j8FTHMLCBCztRctvHYE8uNpupwRBJ7wgoQBvwbkqpD3
         esyRn9F1+E0OnGTX09iJJVXZquWcy6BsCCR0t/wjUumEep30y1qBiWPcWPbMXx3tbR4f
         X0matTe1J120qNn1ywCUwUR4arT7vNlfl669p+p5/BHtKNy94YugAwtEb1TJfIrYZJmQ
         XqYI5R6qgWASy5ywIUgUnt2YxMDF8FZLaksXZtGCmbFgnHwSC1Z6L08cGdIWHZfFuwB2
         JEHQ==
Received: by 10.236.118.82 with SMTP id k58mr30652yhh.1.1348350290503;
        Sat, 22 Sep 2012 14:44:50 -0700 (PDT)
X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com
Received: by 10.236.187.39 with SMTP id x27ls1261846yhm.4.gmail; Sat, 22 Sep
 2012 14:44:49 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by 10.236.136.202 with SMTP id w50mr6331479yhi.47.1348350289577;
        Sat, 22 Sep 2012 14:44:49 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by 10.236.136.202 with SMTP id w50mr6331478yhi.47.1348350289567;
        Sat, 22 Sep 2012 14:44:49 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from chausie ([2001:470:8:42:2c0:f0ff:fe3b:b5b5])
        by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id q2si2613832yhi.5.2012.09.22.14.44.47;
        Sat, 22 Sep 2012 14:44:47 -0700 (PDT)
Received-SPF: neutral (google.com: 2001:470:8:42:2c0:f0ff:fe3b:b5b5 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of phma@phma.optus.nu) client-ip=2001:470:8:42:2c0:f0ff:fe3b:b5b5;
Received: from caracal.localnet (localhost [127.0.0.1])
	by chausie (Postfix) with ESMTP id 59E2F17771
	for <lojban@googlegroups.com>; Sat, 22 Sep 2012 17:44:46 -0400 (EDT)
From: Pierre Abbat <phma@phma.optus.nu>
To: lojban@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [lojban] baby words, sort of: catlu vs. zgana
Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2012 17:44:46 -0400
Message-ID: <2260821.EtbfHbxvuR@caracal>
User-Agent: KMail/4.8.4 (Linux/3.2.0-30-generic; KDE/4.8.4; x86_64; ; )
In-Reply-To: <CAOQ8VDWCF_hiCOf5y09TsiDk_ZtgMWNQPAqxqy_-avJX8sE+4Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20111107073107.GI21492@stodi.digitalkingdom.org> <505E0E09.7030304@gmx.de> <CAOQ8VDWCF_hiCOf5y09TsiDk_ZtgMWNQPAqxqy_-avJX8sE+4Q@mail.gmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Original-Sender: phma@phma.optus.nu
X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=neutral (google.com:
 2001:470:8:42:2c0:f0ff:fe3b:b5b5 is neither permitted nor denied by best
 guess record for domain of phma@phma.optus.nu) smtp.mail=phma@phma.optus.nu
Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com
Precedence: list
Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com
List-ID: <lojban.googlegroups.com>
X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417
List-Post: <http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/post?hl=en_US>, <mailto:lojban@googlegroups.com>
List-Help: <http://groups.google.com/support/?hl=en_US>, <mailto:lojban+help@googlegroups.com>
List-Archive: <http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en_US>
Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com
List-Subscribe: <http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/subscribe?hl=en_US>, <mailto:lojban+subscribe@googlegroups.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/subscribe?hl=en_US>, <mailto:googlegroups-manage+1004133512417+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/)
X-Spam_score: -0.7
X-Spam_score_int: -6
X-Spam_bar: /

On Saturday, September 22, 2012 15:17:48 Jacob Errington wrote:
> {viska} is a primitive that doesn't require any cognition really. Events
> are on a level much higher than light just reflecting off surfaces into a
> sensor. I would argue that a camera can viska. By contrast, {catlu}
> inherently requires congition and probably volition too, and is definitely
> more appropriate for "seeing" events.

There's enough logic hardwired in the visual cortex to perceive that something 
is moving, as well as that it is an apple, without having to move the eyes. So 
I consider "mi viska lo nu lo plise cu farlu" to be valid.

"catlu" means to point the eyes at something, to direct one's attention at 
something which one sees. "ko viska" would be said to someone whose eyes are 
closed or who was blind and can now see. "ko catlu" would be said to someone 
whose gaze is pointed somewhere else.

Pierre
-- 
ve ka'a ro klaji la .romas. se jmaji

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group.
To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en.