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That point about the visual cortex is not only unimportant but outright
false; vision does not take place exclusively in the visual cortex but is
rather dispersed across the entire brain. That is, very nearly every neuron
is involved to some extent in vision, and not even with interpretation, but
just with generation of the signal itself. It is one of the most
complicated things the brain has to manage. So no, even something as simple
as motion is probably never detected by the visual cortex exclusively.

But even if it were, where do you draw the line? Can you see an event of
love? Of anger? Of thought? All of these, unlike an apple falling, require
an inference in addition to signal processing. (Actually, so does the apple
falling, based on what I said in the previous paragraph, but we don't
notice the inference there.) It seems simpler to say that you can't
actually see an event at all, but only the objects involved in the event,
since then you don't have to decide what can and can't be seen in the way
of events.

mu'o mi'e la latro'a

On Sat, Sep 22, 2012 at 5:44 PM, Pierre Abbat <phma@phma.optus.nu> wrote:

> On Saturday, September 22, 2012 15:17:48 Jacob Errington wrote:
> > {viska} is a primitive that doesn't require any cognition really. Events
> > are on a level much higher than light just reflecting off surfaces into a
> > sensor. I would argue that a camera can viska. By contrast, {catlu}
> > inherently requires congition and probably volition too, and is
> definitely
> > more appropriate for "seeing" events.
>
> There's enough logic hardwired in the visual cortex to perceive that
> something
> is moving, as well as that it is an apple, without having to move the
> eyes. So
> I consider "mi viska lo nu lo plise cu farlu" to be valid.
>
> "catlu" means to point the eyes at something, to direct one's attention at
> something which one sees. "ko viska" would be said to someone whose eyes
> are
> closed or who was blind and can now see. "ko catlu" would be said to
> someone
> whose gaze is pointed somewhere else.
>
> Pierre
> --
> ve ka'a ro klaji la .romas. se jmaji
>
> --
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>

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That point about the visual cortex is not only unimportant but outright fal=
se; vision does not take place exclusively in the visual cortex but is rath=
er dispersed across the entire brain. That is, very nearly every neuron is =
involved to some extent in vision, and not even with interpretation, but ju=
st with generation of the signal itself. It is one of the most complicated =
things the brain has to manage. So no, even something as simple as motion i=
s probably never detected by the visual cortex exclusively.<br>
<br>But even if it were, where do you draw the line? Can you see an event o=
f love? Of anger? Of thought? All of these, unlike an apple falling, requir=
e an inference in addition to signal processing. (Actually, so does the app=
le falling, based on what I said in the previous paragraph, but we don&#39;=
t notice the inference there.) It seems simpler to say that you can&#39;t a=
ctually see an event at all, but only the objects involved in the event, si=
nce then you don&#39;t have to decide what can and can&#39;t be seen in the=
 way of events. <br>
<br>mu&#39;o mi&#39;e la latro&#39;a<br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On S=
at, Sep 22, 2012 at 5:44 PM, Pierre Abbat <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"=
mailto:phma@phma.optus.nu" target=3D"_blank">phma@phma.optus.nu</a>&gt;</sp=
an> wrote:<br>

<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div>On Saturday, September 22, 2012 15:17:4=
8 Jacob Errington wrote:<br>
&gt; {viska} is a primitive that doesn&#39;t require any cognition really. =
Events<br>
&gt; are on a level much higher than light just reflecting off surfaces int=
o a<br>
&gt; sensor. I would argue that a camera can viska. By contrast, {catlu}<br=
>
&gt; inherently requires congition and probably volition too, and is defini=
tely<br>
&gt; more appropriate for &quot;seeing&quot; events.<br>
<br>
</div>There&#39;s enough logic hardwired in the visual cortex to perceive t=
hat something<br>
is moving, as well as that it is an apple, without having to move the eyes.=
 So<br>
I consider &quot;mi viska lo nu lo plise cu farlu&quot; to be valid.<br>
<br>
&quot;catlu&quot; means to point the eyes at something, to direct one&#39;s=
 attention at<br>
something which one sees. &quot;ko viska&quot; would be said to someone who=
se eyes are<br>
closed or who was blind and can now see. &quot;ko catlu&quot; would be said=
 to someone<br>
whose gaze is pointed somewhere else.<br>
<span><font color=3D"#888888"><br>
Pierre<br>
--<br>
ve ka&#39;a ro klaji la .romas. se jmaji<br>
</font></span><div><div><br>
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<br>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br>

<p></p>

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