Received: from mail-vb0-f61.google.com ([209.85.212.61]:38197) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1TFhaq-00041Z-3a; Sun, 23 Sep 2012 01:31:21 -0700 Received: by vbzb23 with SMTP id b23sf4197985vbz.16 for ; Sun, 23 Sep 2012 01:31:05 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=20120806; h=x-beenthere:date:from:to:message-id:subject:mime-version :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post :list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe :content-type; bh=qtjbhUeZVaOdbO/Vdi2q9liRnZUJECYku6/5L4w6nOA=; b=Z10AgXms2QCW8CRAmhXYHFZNxux8+XC7I52nEDYQN0w46JnhFvwSGU8UEw3CSpXKzB nEVbY29zSmszunUQCzfaHyCjIfVwK4Dr6ZrYbLksrYOj8QomvHOt61JzvXGZU6eVPIvt uyj2FPAPBuyZMDJjd+9fJHIZbYML1GvDZLGaW/C9c4m8qcgy26S+KOXp8hDPYNo9qYY9 xYkBx4J3IRyuNf6k+3y27Pwvc07RXfQYAJpwpT00lWtcWPyVhFKIjZD5LDS0pc0LWHjG fvLnhnaB5s4DuxitYVf0rSfys6DaP6kAZoxgQIozGqsqO7M+S734Fx/vZKYzlgdv5mX+ sPZw== Received: by 10.52.71.38 with SMTP id r6mr1441094vdu.12.1348389065009; Sun, 23 Sep 2012 01:31:05 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.220.223.69 with SMTP id ij5ls3619698vcb.6.gmail; Sun, 23 Sep 2012 01:31:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.52.96.71 with SMTP id dq7mr851299vdb.11.1348389064616; Sun, 23 Sep 2012 01:31:04 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2012 01:31:04 -0700 (PDT) From: la gleki To: lojban@googlegroups.com Message-Id: <6b39d3c2-39f6-40d0-a1bb-e99303a5db64@googlegroups.com> Subject: [lojban] Bridi math. Status? MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Original-Sender: gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: ls.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com designates internal as permitted sender) smtp.mail=gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_968_4309511.1348389064295" X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Spam_score: -0.7 X-Spam_score_int: -6 X-Spam_bar: / ------=_Part_968_4309511.1348389064295 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 This article on bridi math was written in 2010. No news since then? May be we should develop bridi math after all? Here are my comments. ni'ai The nesting of be/bei/be'o gets a bit confusing after a while, and in some cases wastes syllables. For that reason, I've coined ni'ai as a member of NU to mean something like "x1 is the numerical result of calculation bridi under system / interpretation x2". Eimi (other name?) has pointed out that this is identical to an idea that he has had, which is "x1 is the result / value / truth of the first empty / marked place in bridi under system / interpretation x2" (my defintion). Basically, "le ni'ai brivla x2 x3 ... " == "le bridi be x2 bei x3 ...": it's a transform of le + be/bei/be'o into a NU structure without the be/bei/be'o. ... So with ni'ai, we get structures like "sumji ny le ni'ai pilji li re li pai li xy" for "n + (2 * pi * x)". Well, saving space is a nice goal. But I can suggest another option, namely extending rules a bit. If we make {be}={be fe lo} and {bei}={bei lo} then the example would become even more compact. sumji ny lo pilji be re bei pai bei xy" for "n + (2 * pi * x)". Advantage: compact sentences, not for math only. No new experimental cmavo added. Disadvantage: camxes won't parse that. We need to make {be, bei} more powerful. To li Or Not To li Grammatically, in something like "x = t + 2" it is perfectly legal to do either "li xy" for the first part or just "xy". In the first case, we are clearly talking about the variable x. In the second case, we are using the pro-sumti xy to stand in for the variable x. The second case is therefore somewhat ambiguous; many things start with "x". However, in mathematical texts confusion is unlikely to result, so it probably doesn't matter very much, just be aware of it. It sometimes saves some syllables, but not always (I prefer "sumji xy li ty" to "sumji xy boi ty", but that's a stylistic preference). So as you can see my answer is "Not to li". Other examples: Math: "tan(pi/2) = infinity" CLL: "li na'u tanjo te'u vei pai fe'i re ve'o du li ci'i" Robin: "le tanjo be le se pilji be li pai bei li re du li ci'i" gleki: "lo tanjo be se pilji be pai bei re cu du ci'i" English: "Length * Width * Depth = Volume" CLL:"li ni'e ni clani te'u pi'i ni'e ni ganra te'u pi'i ni'e ni condi te'u du li ni'e ni canlu" Robin:"le ni'ai pilji le ni clani kei le ni ganra kei le ni condi cu du le ni canlu" gleki: "lo pilji be ni clani kei bei ni ganra kei bei ni condi cu du lo ni canlu" Math:"f(x) + 1" Robin:"sumji li pa le me fy be xy" or "sumji li pa le ni'ai me fy li xy" or similar. gleki: "sumji li pa le me fy be xy" or *"sumji li pa lo me fy be xy"* or similar. Unsolved issues: Robin's {gi'ui} looks very much like gua\spi's solution. If I had more time I would definitely delve into this issue. Currently zo gi'ui mutce lo ka cizra. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/lojban/-/KllD7oYVf18J. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. ------=_Part_968_4309511.1348389064295 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable This article on bridi math was written in 2010= . No news since then?
May be we should develop bridi math after all?

Here are my comments.

ni'ai

The nesting of be/bei/be'o get= s a bit confusing after a while, and in some cases wastes syllables. For th= at reason, I've coined ni'ai as a member of NU to mean something like "x1 i= s the numerical result of calculation bridi under system / interpretation x2". Eimi (other nam= e?) has pointed out that this is identical to an idea that he has had, whic= h is "x1 is the result / value / truth of the first empty / marked place in=  bridi under s= ystem / interpretation x2" (my defintion). Basically, "le ni'ai brivla x2 x3 ..." = =3D=3D "le bridi be x2 bei x3 ...": it's a transform of le + be/bei/be'o in= to a NU structure without the be/bei/be'o.

...

So with ni'ai, we get structu= res like "sumji ny le ni'ai pilji li re li pai li xy" for "n + (2 * pi * x)= ".


Well, saving space is a nice goal. But I can suggest a= nother option, namely extending rules a bit.

I= f we make {be}=3D{be fe lo} and {bei}=3D{bei lo} then the example would bec= ome even more compact.
sumji ny lo pilji be re bei pai bei xy" fo= r "n + (2 * pi * x)".
Advantage: compact sentences, not for m= ath only. No new experimental cmavo added.
Disadvantage: camxes w= on't parse that. We need to make {be, bei} more powerful.


To li Or Not To li

Grammatically, in something like "x =3D t + 2" it i= s perfectly legal to do either "li xy" for the first part or just "xy". In = the first case, we are clearly talking about the variable x. In the second = case, we are using the pro-sumti xy to stand in for the variable x. The sec= ond case is therefore somewhat ambiguous; many things start with "x". Howev= er, in mathematical texts confusion is unlikely to result, so it probably d= oesn't matter very much, just be aware of it. It sometimes saves some sylla= bles, but not always (I prefer "sumji xy li ty" to "sumji xy boi ty", but t= hat's a stylistic preference).


So as you can see my answer is "Not to li".

Other examples:
Math: "tan(pi/2) =3D infini= ty"
CLL: "li na'u tanjo te'u vei pai fe'i re ve'o du li ci'i"
Robin: "le tanjo be le se pilji be li pai bei li re du li ci'i"
<= /div>
gleki:   "lo tanjo be se pilji be pai bei re cu du ci'i"

English: "Length * Width * Depth =3D Volume"
CLL:"li ni'e ni clani te'u pi'i ni'e ni ganra te'u pi'i ni'e ni cond= i te'u du li ni'e ni canlu"
Robin:"le ni'ai pilji le ni clani kei= le ni ganra kei le ni condi cu du le ni canlu"
gleki:  = "lo pilji be ni clani kei bei ni ganra kei bei ni condi cu du lo ni canlu"<= /div>

Math:"f(x) + 1"
Robin:"sumji li pa = le me fy be xy" or "sumji li pa le ni'ai me fy li xy" or similar.
gleki:  "sumji li pa le me fy be xy" or "sumji li pa lo me fy be x= y" or similar.



=
Unsolved issues:
Robin's {gi'ui} looks very much like gua\sp= i's solution. If I had more time I would definitely delve into this issue. = Currently zo gi'ui mutce lo ka cizra.

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