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Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2012 21:09:46 -0700 (PDT)
From: "la .lindar." <lindarthebard@gmail.com>
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Subject: Re: [lojban] A new Lojbanic wiki (LMW). On the threshold of the 25th
 anniversary of Lojban
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On Monday, 24 September 2012 19:59:59 UTC-7, .alyn.post. wrote:
>
> This is a project I could really find myself getting behind, and I 
> also have some concerns.  Would you, gleki, or someone else involved 
> be willing to discuss them with me? 
>

Yaaaaaaay! Enthusiasm!
 

>  * I'd like to hear at least a basic outline on the theory of why the 
>    existing Lojban wiki got to it's current (rubbish?) state and what 
>    will be different this time. 
>

Abandonment of pages and generally a lack of any articles linking to other 
articles or any sense of anything linking to anything ever. Have you ever 
been caught in wiki hell before? I want to see that level of linkage on 
every wiki page. Also, slightly unrelated, but still awesome, we can make a 
page for the best-form lujvo and then redirect all possible combinations of 
rafsi to the best-scoring word (i.e. brodybroda redirects to rodbo'a and 
fukpyvalsi / fukyvalsi / fukyvla / fu'irvalsi / fukpyvla / etc. redirects 
to fu'ivla), which may be a boon for using the website as a dictionary 
tool. It would allow us to include discussion, examples, and more along 
side the definition of each word.
 

>  * Sort of to the same point: this community starts far more 
>    projects than it finishes.  This impacts the wiki, because a page 
>    will get written but then becomes unmaintained and eventually 
>    becomes part of the long tail of pages that are out of date but 
>    still vaguely relevant.  Is starting this wiki also a commitment 
>    to curate it?  Asked another way: is this project different from 
>    the other projects that are started but not completed or 
>    maintained? 
>

Lindar actually gives two shits about it and is currently working on the 
dictionary project, which I hope will integrate with this. The big reason 
for MediaWiki of all things is that it lets a dumbshit like me create Wiki 
pages without having to understand complex concepts like "programming" or 
"computers", so I can just slap-dash a page together with a pretty picture 
(I can't embed pictures on tiki pages like on MediaWiki. This is a huge 
problem for me and one of my biggest complaints.) and call it a day.
 

>  * Last week I needed the redirect feature of Lojban's tiki software 
>    enabled.  I was able to contact Robin on IRC and ask him to enable 
>    it, and he did so later than day.  Who is the support person for 
>    this wiki?  Any idea of how responsive you'll be? 
>

This, unfortunately, cannot be answered by Lindar.
 

>     * I have several templates that I would like to use on this wiki. 
>       They require the Cite and ParserFunctions extensions.  Will the 
>       support person add these extensions please?  /me starts timer. 
>

Again, not by me. If this remains outside of lojban.org then it's entirely 
in the hands of the two people that've developed the page so far. Either 
way, not something with which I can help. 
 

> Thank you!  I have made a deep investment in mediawiki and use it in 
> every other community I participate in.  I'd love to see lojban.org 
> use this software, but I don't understand why it fixes and/or is 
> better than the current wiki. 
>

I hope I've been a help with some of your questions.

-Lindar 

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------=_Part_33_6751439.1348546186522
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
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<br><br>On Monday, 24 September 2012 19:59:59 UTC-7, .alyn.post.  wrote:<bl=
ockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0;margin-left: 0.8ex;border=
-left: 1px #ccc solid;padding-left: 1ex;">This is a project I could really =
find myself getting behind, and I
<br>also have some concerns. &nbsp;Would you, gleki, or someone else involv=
ed
<br>be willing to discuss them with me?
<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Yaaaaaaay! Enthusiasm!</div><div>&nbsp=
;</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0;margin-left: 0.=
8ex;border-left: 1px #ccc solid;padding-left: 1ex;">&nbsp;* I'd like to hea=
r at least a basic outline on the theory of why the
<br>&nbsp; &nbsp;existing Lojban wiki got to it's current (rubbish?) state =
and what
<br>&nbsp; &nbsp;will be different this time.
<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Abandonment of pages and generally a l=
ack of any articles linking to other articles or any sense of anything link=
ing to anything ever. Have you ever been caught in wiki hell before? I want=
 to see that level of linkage on every wiki page. Also, slightly unrelated,=
 but still awesome, we can make a page for the best-form lujvo and then red=
irect all possible combinations of rafsi to the best-scoring word (i.e. bro=
dybroda redirects to rodbo'a and fukpyvalsi / fukyvalsi / fukyvla / fu'irva=
lsi / fukpyvla / etc. redirects to fu'ivla), which may be a boon for using =
the website as a dictionary tool. It would allow us to include discussion, =
examples, and more along side the definition of each word.</div><div>&nbsp;=
</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0;margin-left: 0.8=
ex;border-left: 1px #ccc solid;padding-left: 1ex;">&nbsp;* Sort of to the s=
ame point: this community starts far more
<br>&nbsp; &nbsp;projects than it finishes. &nbsp;This impacts the wiki, be=
cause a page
<br>&nbsp; &nbsp;will get written but then becomes unmaintained and eventua=
lly
<br>&nbsp; &nbsp;becomes part of the long tail of pages that are out of dat=
e but
<br>&nbsp; &nbsp;still vaguely relevant. &nbsp;Is starting this wiki also a=
 commitment
<br>&nbsp; &nbsp;to curate it? &nbsp;Asked another way: is this project dif=
ferent from
<br>&nbsp; &nbsp;the other projects that are started but not completed or
<br>&nbsp; &nbsp;maintained?
<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Lindar actually gives two shits about =
it and is currently working on the dictionary project, which I hope will in=
tegrate with this. The big reason for MediaWiki of all things is that it le=
ts a dumbshit like me create Wiki pages without having to understand comple=
x concepts like "programming" or "computers", so I can just slap-dash a pag=
e together with a pretty picture (I can't embed pictures on tiki pages like=
 on MediaWiki. This is a huge problem for me and one of my biggest complain=
ts.) and call it a day.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_qu=
ote" style=3D"margin: 0;margin-left: 0.8ex;border-left: 1px #ccc solid;padd=
ing-left: 1ex;">&nbsp;* Last week I needed the redirect feature of Lojban's=
 tiki software
<br>&nbsp; &nbsp;enabled. &nbsp;I was able to contact Robin on IRC and ask =
him to enable
<br>&nbsp; &nbsp;it, and he did so later than day. &nbsp;Who is the support=
 person for
<br>&nbsp; &nbsp;this wiki? &nbsp;Any idea of how responsive you'll be?
<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div>This, unfortunately, cannot be answere=
d by Lindar.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=
=3D"margin: 0;margin-left: 0.8ex;border-left: 1px #ccc solid;padding-left: =
1ex;">&nbsp; &nbsp; * I have several templates that I would like to use on =
this wiki.
<br>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; They require the Cite and ParserFunctions extensio=
ns. &nbsp;Will the
<br>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; support person add these extensions please? &nbsp;=
/me starts timer.
<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Again, not by me. If this remains outs=
ide of lojban.org then it's entirely in the hands of the two people that've=
 developed the page so far. Either way, not something with which I can help=
.&nbsp;</div><div>&nbsp;</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"ma=
rgin: 0;margin-left: 0.8ex;border-left: 1px #ccc solid;padding-left: 1ex;">=
Thank you! &nbsp;I have made a deep investment in mediawiki and use it in
<br>every other community I participate in. &nbsp;I'd love to see <a href=
=3D"http://lojban.org" target=3D"_blank">lojban.org</a>
<br>use this software, but I don't understand why it fixes and/or is
<br>better than the current wiki.
<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div>I hope I've been a help with some of y=
our questions.</div><div><br></div><div>-Lindar&nbsp;</div>

<p></p>

-- <br />
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vjZFs4A9sJ</a>.<br />=20
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