Received: from mail-oa0-f61.google.com ([209.85.219.61]:39709) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1TIEOh-0008La-Uq; Sun, 30 Sep 2012 00:57:18 -0700 Received: by oago6 with SMTP id o6sf3670341oag.16 for ; Sun, 30 Sep 2012 00:57:01 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=20120806; h=x-beenthere:date:from:to:message-id:subject:mime-version :x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id :x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=pfQ7IS/ophlrl6ulpXeTIQ4H/SndUiXSWbtYWfSCoK4=; b=EcMxnUdbsRLDrCsjL2d3ngdvOBQcx/RFOz1+78doUSwbohdc8iUSPg4b9woH02kG5l F6oQb0iJOGZGEmgcNgtly0XHK9NJ9D9xALOE6TVACofrBHlhY0PnSGL9/BWa/4OvARTp n6LzkpCI4H+8XrwVuYb4QipFKsMziqDrw139CT3qSO3tVPwcmijepBTa/e4kPffevwx1 SoR/ihNg2MAIep8JL9X7miIYsiKp5PZ+ZWsmPPHWjuUNL3YG5g5JA09zsBudxU9L5zSS XSka+bWzivk2GUEtBzH/5huEt5TfnwC5OJyZl5ZnuwElJz7ADojoS0TtYfibrRaySVRw 1mWQ== Received: by 10.52.28.83 with SMTP id z19mr2445508vdg.20.1348991821399; Sun, 30 Sep 2012 00:57:01 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.52.21.40 with SMTP id s8ls4388287vde.8.gmail; Sun, 30 Sep 2012 00:57:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.52.156.115 with SMTP id wd19mr2475472vdb.2.1348991820912; Sun, 30 Sep 2012 00:57:00 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2012 00:56:59 -0700 (PDT) From: la gleki To: lojban@googlegroups.com Message-Id: Subject: [lojban] What place of nesting bridi {ce'u} refers to? MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Original-Sender: gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_1747_21141461.1348991819786" X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam_score: 0.0 X-Spam_score_int: 0 X-Spam_bar: / ------=_Part_1747_21141461.1348991819786 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 http://dag.github.com/cll/7/11/ 11.1) le ka ce'u gleki the property-of (X being-happy) the property of being happy happiness and 11.2) le ka gleki ce'u the property-of (being-happy about-X) the property of being that which someone is happy about These examples are pretty clear. No ambiguity. Now let's open Chapter 11.4 http://dag.github.com/cll/11/4/ 4.9) la djan. cu zmadu la djordj. le ka mi prami ce'u John exceeds George in-the property-of (I love X). This is something very strange. Let's imagine that I'm a boy and I meet a girl. I tell her {do melbi mi lo ka ce'u clani} Does {ce'u} refer to {do} or {mi}? There are at least two ways this sentence can be understood. 1. I like tall girls. She is tall. I mean "I like that you are tall". i.e. {ce'u} refers to {lo melbi}. 2. I'm a tall boy. She is shortish. I mean "I like that you are short (given that I'm tall)". i.e. {ce'u} refers to {lo se melbi}. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/lojban/-/0N_iALbXtsoJ. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. ------=_Part_1747_21141461.1348991819786 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
http://dag.github.com/cll/7/11/
11.1)  le ka ce'u gleki
       the property-of (X being-happy)
       the property of being happy
       happiness
and
11.2)  =
le ka gleki ce'u
       the property-of (being-happy about-X)
       the property of being that which someone is happy about
<= div>

These examples are pretty clear. No ambig= uity. Now let's open Chapter 11.4

4.9)   la djan. cu zmadu la=
 djordj. le ka mi prami ce'u
       John exceeds George in-the property-of (I love X).
<= br>

This is something very strange.
Let'= s imagine that I'm a boy and I meet a girl. I tell her

=
{do melbi mi lo ka ce'u clani}

Does {ce'u} re= fer to {do} or {mi}?

There are at least two ways t= his sentence can be understood.
1. I like tall girls. She is tall= . I mean "I like that you are tall". i.e. {ce'u} refers to {lo melbi}.
2. I'm a tall boy. She is shortish. I mean "I like that you are short= (given that I'm tall)". i.e. {ce'u} refers to {lo se melbi}.

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