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Subject: Re: [lojban] {kau} vs. {ba'e}
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Simply because {la djan kau} is arguably never correct, {kau} can never
"replace" {ba'e}. {kau} has a particular use, namely to mark indirect
*questions*. {kau} on anything but a question is weird, at best, and
complete nonsense, at worst.

{ba'e} on the other hand marks emphasis. Emphasis and indirect questions
are two separate ideas.

{.i mi djuno lo du'u xukau la djan ba'e broda} "I know whether John brodas
(and not whether he does/is some other selbri)"
{.i mi djuno lo du'u ba'e xu kau la djan ba'e broda} "I know *whether* John
brodas (and not if it pertains to some other indirect question)"

The thing about {makau} is that it's somewhat referentless, like {da}, and
it's best to think about {[question]-kau} constructs as being single items
of the [question]'s selma'o.

As for "replacing kau with ba'e", I must say that replacing *incorrect*
usage of {kau}, such as {la djan kau}, with {ba'e}, in the form of {ba'e la
djan} is a very excellent solution.

.i mi'e la tsani mu'o

On 30 September 2012 04:48, la gleki <gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com> wrote:

> It was previously mentioned that
> {.i ko'a broda xu = .i xu ko'a ba'e broda}
>
> The example
>
> http://dag.github.com/cll/11/8/
>
> 8.4)   mi djuno le du'u
>              la djan. kau pu
>                  klama le zarci
>        I know the predication-of/fact-that
>              John [indirect question] [past]
>                  going to the store.
>        I know who went to the store, namely John.
>        I know that it was John who went to the store.
>
>
> is rather interesting.
> It shows the shift of focus to {la djan.}
>
> Then why not use {kau} instead of {ba'e} all the time?
> {mi kau djuno le du'u la djan. kau pu klama lo zarci} ?
> If you need arrange foci by their strength you can always say
>
> {mi kausai djuno le du'u la djan. kau pu klama lo zarci}.
>
> So my question is:
> in what cases {ba'e} is irreplaceable?
>
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Simply because {la djan kau} is arguably never correct, {kau} can never &qu=
ot;replace&quot; {ba&#39;e}. {kau} has a particular use, namely to mark ind=
irect *questions*. {kau} on anything but a question is weird, at best, and =
complete nonsense, at worst.<div>

<br></div><div>{ba&#39;e} on the other hand marks emphasis. Emphasis and in=
direct questions are two separate ideas.=A0</div><div><br></div><div>{.i mi=
 djuno lo du&#39;u xukau la djan ba&#39;e broda} &quot;I know whether John =
brodas (and not whether he does/is some other selbri)&quot;</div>

<div>{.i mi djuno lo du&#39;u ba&#39;e xu kau la djan ba&#39;e broda} &quot=
;I know *whether* John brodas (and not if it pertains to some other indirec=
t question)&quot;</div><div><br></div><div>The thing about {makau} is that =
it&#39;s somewhat referentless, like {da}, and it&#39;s best to think about=
 {[question]-kau} constructs as being single items of the [question]&#39;s =
selma&#39;o.</div>

<div><br></div><div>As for &quot;replacing kau with ba&#39;e&quot;, I must =
say that replacing *incorrect* usage of {kau}, such as {la djan kau}, with =
{ba&#39;e}, in the form of {ba&#39;e la djan} is a very excellent solution.=
</div>

<div><br></div><div>.i mi&#39;e la tsani mu&#39;o</div><div><br><div class=
=3D"gmail_quote">On 30 September 2012 04:48, la gleki <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt=
;<a href=3D"mailto:gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">gleki.is.m=
y.name@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>

<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div>It was previously mentioned that=A0</di=
v><div>{.i ko&#39;a broda xu =3D .i xu ko&#39;a ba&#39;e broda}</div><div><=
br>
</div>
<div>The example</div><div><br></div><div><a href=3D"http://dag.github.com/=
cll/11/8/" target=3D"_blank">http://dag.github.com/cll/11/8/</a><br></div><=
div><br></div><blockquote style=3D"margin:0 0 0 40px;border:none;padding:0p=
x">

<div>8.4) =A0 mi djuno le du&#39;u</div><div>=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0la =
djan. kau pu</div><div>=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0klama le zarci</d=
iv><div>=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0I know the predication-of/fact-that</div><div>=A0 =
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0John [indirect question] [past]</div>

<div>=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0going to the store.</div><div>=A0 =
=A0 =A0 =A0I know who went to the store, namely John.</div><div>=A0 =A0 =A0=
 =A0I know that it was John who went to the store.</div></blockquote><div><=
br></div><div>is rather interesting.</div>

<div>It shows the shift of focus to {la djan.}</div><div><br></div><div>The=
n why not use {kau} instead of {ba&#39;e} all the time?</div><div>{mi kau d=
juno le du&#39;u la djan. kau pu klama lo zarci} ?</div><div>If you need ar=
range foci by their strength you can always say</div>

<div><br></div><div>{mi kausai djuno le du&#39;u la djan. kau pu klama lo z=
arci}.</div><div><br></div><div>So my question is:</div><div>in what cases =
{ba&#39;e} is irreplaceable?</div><span class=3D"HOEnZb"><font color=3D"#88=
8888"><div>

<br></div>

<p></p>

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</font></span></blockquote></div><br></div>

<p></p>

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