Received: from mail-gg0-f189.google.com ([209.85.161.189]:42949) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1TIhrX-0005PK-Hs; Mon, 01 Oct 2012 08:25:05 -0700 Received: by ggnl2 with SMTP id l2sf5423829ggn.16 for ; Mon, 01 Oct 2012 08:24:45 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=20120806; h=x-beenthere:date:from:to:message-id:in-reply-to:references:subject :mime-version:x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=mgwOoEDZ3lym2hQ8hqRE9b5gspEctfP72zYJiMtfQrE=; b=rQsicFZJ7z97LXVTkpRjYIT633g+JuJphKC5QHv8ivHBwReW0DpReIRiO8106My1R2 LVQbcdolJdEek7oiUf0vL5z+AjOlfjBgO+NK58aVRjZ2D71Xu/FEiFMhdxXxSHubaLo2 ymSnKjiNtGplrCXGJXgl53tFmQCrIlTQ4wN4p6Zb9y00wasZ23zTofnSYs7XSbh0FWvR lT6zQuML4axUok5HO5wcxyqWAkQ0ob3rD/hJBd8unEtTOP3BvENy0YtmPQCMHTCpuTp+ 0pc6kYbjmSfsEKDzLDB/aC2Mkb6KtON9wCsiiWZZwW2pk3e95KJW04LRcLnmgqB4wR5p cP2A== Received: by 10.236.183.101 with SMTP id p65mr2092917yhm.20.1349105084964; Mon, 01 Oct 2012 08:24:44 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.220.224.8 with SMTP id im8ls4445632vcb.4.gmail; Mon, 01 Oct 2012 08:24:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.52.30.133 with SMTP id s5mr2799261vdh.10.1349105084376; Mon, 01 Oct 2012 08:24:44 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2012 08:24:44 -0700 (PDT) From: la gleki To: lojban@googlegroups.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Subject: Re: [lojban] What place of nesting bridi {ce'u} refers to? MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Original-Sender: gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_1251_24205173.1349105084023" X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Spam_score: -0.7 X-Spam_score_int: -6 X-Spam_bar: / ------=_Part_1251_24205173.1349105084023 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 On Monday, October 1, 2012 1:35:54 AM UTC+4, tsani wrote: > > It'd be nice if the gimste mentioned to which higher-level sumti places > the ce'u referred to, much like guaspi's gimste, but that isn't the case. > > On 30 September 2012 00:56, la gleki >wrote: > >> http://dag.github.com/cll/7/11/ >> >> 11.1) le ka ce'u gleki >> the property-of (X being-happy) >> the property of being happy >> happiness >> >> and >> >> 11.2) le ka gleki ce'u >> the property-of (being-happy about-X) >> the property of being that which someone is happy about >> >> >> >> These examples are pretty clear. No ambiguity. Now let's open Chapter 11.4 >> http://dag.github.com/cll/11/4/ >> >> 4.9) la djan. cu zmadu la djordj. le ka mi prami ce'u >> John exceeds George in-the property-of (I love X). >> >> >> >> This is something very strange. >> Let's imagine that I'm a boy and I meet a girl. I tell her >> >> {do melbi mi lo ka ce'u clani} >> >> > Does {ce'u} refer to {do} or {mi}? >> >> > It definitely refers to melbi1. If x3 is the aspect in which x1 is > beautiful, it's pretty clear that it's the x1 that is referred to by the > argument place in clani. > How do you know that? Just a common sense? If so it's a real problem. Someone is developing lojban in terms of NLP but your answers clearly show that currently it's impossible. Don't you think that we should mark all gismu that have such "problems"? > .i mi'e la tsani mu'o > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/lojban/-/Vl8RFZbT5ZsJ. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. ------=_Part_1251_24205173.1349105084023 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

On Monday, October 1, 2012 1:35:54 AM UTC+4, tsani wrote:It'd be nice if the gimste mentioned to = which higher-level sumti places the ce'u referred to, much like guaspi's gi= mste, but that isn't the case.

On 30 Sep= tember 2012 00:56, la gleki <gleki.is...@gmail.c= om> wrote:
http://dag.github.com/cll/7/1=
1/



11.1)  le ka ce'u gleki
       the property-of (X being-happy)
       the property of being happy
       happiness
and11.2) le ka gleki ce'u the property-of (being-happy about-X) the property of being that which someone is happy about
<= div>

These examples are pretty clear. No ambig= uity. Now let's open Chapter 11.4

4.9)   la djan. cu zmadu la djo=
rdj. le ka mi prami ce'u
       John exceeds George in-the property-of (I love X).
<= br>

This is something very strange.
Let'= s imagine that I'm a boy and I meet a girl. I tell her

{do melbi mi lo ka ce'u clani}
 
Does {ce'u} refer to {= do} or {mi}?


It definitely refers to mel= bi1. If x3 is the aspect in which x1 is beautiful, it's pretty clear that i= t's the x1 that is referred to by the argument place in clani.
<= /div>


How do you know that? = Just a common sense? If so it's a real problem. Someone is developing lojba= n in terms of NLP but your answers clearly show that currently it's impossi= ble.
Don't you think that we should mark all gismu that have such= "problems"?



.i mi'e la tsani mu'o

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