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From: John E Clifford <kali9putra@yahoo.com>
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Subject: Re: [lojban] What place of nesting bridi {ce'u} refers to?
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Neuro-Linguistic Programming?=A0 Natural Language Processing? Neither seems=
 to fit with the present situation being impossible with respect to it.




________________________________
 From: la gleki <gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com>
To: lojban@googlegroups.com=20
Sent: Monday, October 1, 2012 10:24 AM
Subject: Re: [lojban] What place of nesting bridi {ce'u} refers to?
=20



On Monday, October 1, 2012 1:35:54 AM UTC+4, tsani wrote:
It'd be nice if the gimste mentioned to which higher-level sumti places the=
 ce'u referred to, much like guaspi's gimste, but that isn't the case.
>
>
>On 30 September 2012 00:56, la gleki <gleki.is...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>http://dag.github.com/cll/7/11/
>>
>>11.1) le ka ce'u gleki the property-of (X being-happy) the property of be=
ing happy happiness and
>>11.2) le ka gleki ce'u the property-of (being-happy about-X) the property=
 of being that which someone is happy about
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>These examples are pretty clear. No ambiguity. Now let's open Chapter 11.=
4
>>http://dag.github.com/cll/11/4/
>>
>>
>>
>>4.9) la djan. cu zmadu la djordj. le ka mi prami ce'u John exceeds George=
 in-the property-of (I love X).
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>This is something very strange.
>>Let's imagine that I'm a boy and I meet a girl. I tell her
>>
>>
>>{do melbi mi lo ka ce'u clani}
>>=A0
>Does {ce'u} refer to {do} or {mi}?
>>
>>
>
>
>It definitely refers to melbi1. If x3 is the aspect in which x1 is beautif=
ul, it's pretty clear that it's the x1 that is referred to by the argument =
place in clani.


How do you know that? Just a common sense? If so it's a real problem. Someo=
ne is developing lojban in terms of NLP but your answers clearly show that =
currently it's impossible.
Don't you think that we should mark all gismu that have such "problems"?



>
>.i mi'e la tsani mu'o
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<html><body><div style=3D"color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:ti=
mes new roman, new york, times, serif;font-size:12pt">Neuro-Linguistic Prog=
ramming?&nbsp; Natural Language Processing? Neither seems to fit with the p=
resent situation being impossible with respect to it.<br><div><span><br></s=
pan></div><div><br></div>  <div style=3D"font-family: times new roman, new =
york, times, serif; font-size: 12pt;"> <div style=3D"font-family: times new=
 roman, new york, times, serif; font-size: 12pt;"> <div dir=3D"ltr"> <font =
face=3D"Arial" size=3D"2"> <hr size=3D"1">  <b><span style=3D"font-weight:b=
old;">From:</span></b> la gleki &lt;gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com&gt;<br> <b><=
span style=3D"font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b> lojban@googlegroups.com <b=
r> <b><span style=3D"font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b> Monday, October 1=
, 2012 10:24 AM<br> <b><span style=3D"font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></=
b> Re: [lojban] What place of nesting bridi {ce'u} refers to?<br> </font> <=
/div> <br>
<div id=3D"yiv949434809"><br><br>On Monday, October 1, 2012 1:35:54 AM UTC+=
4, tsani wrote:<blockquote class=3D"yiv949434809gmail_quote" style=3D"margi=
n:0;margin-left:0.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">It'd be=
 nice if the gimste mentioned to which higher-level sumti places the ce'u r=
eferred to, much like guaspi's gimste, but that isn't the case.<div><br><di=
v class=3D"yiv949434809gmail_quote">On 30 September 2012 00:56, la gleki <s=
pan dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"" rel=3D"nofollow">gleki.is...@gmail.com</a>=
&gt;</span> wrote:<br>

<blockquote class=3D"yiv949434809gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;bo=
rder-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;"><div><pre style=3D"background-c=
olor:rgb(242,242,242);padding:0.4em;"><a href=3D"" rel=3D"nofollow"></a>htt=
p://dag.github.com/cll/7/11/<br>

</pre><pre style=3D"background-color:rgb(242,242,242);padding:0.4em;"><a hr=
ef=3D"" rel=3D"nofollow">11.1)</a>  le ka ce'u gleki
       the property-of (X being-happy)
       the property of being happy
       happiness
</pre><span style=3D"font-size:medium;font-family:sans-serif;">and</span><p=
re style=3D"background-color:rgb(242,242,242);padding:0.4em;"><a href=3D"" =
rel=3D"nofollow">11.2)</a>  le ka gleki ce'u
       the property-of (being-happy about-X)
       the property of being that which someone is happy about</pre></div><=
div><br></div><div><br></div><div>These examples are pretty clear. No ambig=
uity. Now let's open Chapter 11.4</div><div>http://dag.github.com/cll/11/4/=
<br>

</div><div><br></div><div><pre style=3D"background-color:rgb(242,242,242);p=
adding:0.4em;"><a href=3D"" rel=3D"nofollow">4.9)</a>   la djan. cu zmadu l=
a djordj. le ka mi prami ce'u
       John exceeds George in-the property-of (I love X).</pre></div><div><=
br></div><div><br></div><div>This is something very strange.</div><div>Let'=
s imagine that I'm a boy and I meet a girl. I tell her</div><div>

<br></div><div>{do melbi mi lo ka ce'u clani}</div><div>&nbsp;</div></block=
quote><blockquote class=3D"yiv949434809gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .=
8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;"><div></div><div>Does {ce'=
u} refer to {do} or {mi}?</div>

<div><br></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>It definitely refers to mel=
bi1. If x3 is the aspect in which x1 is beautiful, it's pretty clear that i=
t's the x1 that is referred to by the argument place in clani.</div></div><=
/div></blockquote><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>How do you know that? =
Just a common sense? If so it's a real problem. Someone is developing lojba=
n in terms of NLP but your answers clearly show that currently it's impossi=
ble.</div><div>Don't you think that we should mark all gismu that have such=
 "problems"?</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><blockquote class=3D"yiv949=
434809gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0;margin-left:0.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc=
 solid;padding-left:1ex;"><div><div class=3D"yiv949434809gmail_quote">

<div><br></div><div>.i mi'e la tsani mu'o</div></div></div>
</blockquote>



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</div><br><br> </div> </div>  </div></body></html>

<p></p>

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