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Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2012 22:04:54 +0200
From: Arnt Richard Johansen <arj@nvg.org>
To: lojban@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [lojban] What place of nesting bridi {ce'u} refers to?
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On Sun, Sep 30, 2012 at 12:56:59AM -0700, la gleki wrote:

> These examples are pretty clear. No ambiguity. Now let's open Chapter 11.=
4
> http://dag.github.com/cll/11/4/
>=20
> 4.9)   la djan. cu zmadu la djordj. le ka mi prami ce'u
>        John exceeds George in-the property-of (I love X).
>=20
> This is something very strange.
> Let's imagine that I'm a boy and I meet a girl. I tell her
>=20
> {do melbi mi lo ka ce'u clani}
>=20
> Does {ce'u} refer to {do} or {mi}?

Neither. {ce'u} does not refer to anything, and that's sort of the whole po=
int. The clause refers to a =E2=80=9Cproperty=E2=80=9D of being tall *in th=
e abstract*, not that of someone in particular being tall.

* lo ka ce'u clani
  being long

* lo ka clani ce'u
  being a dimension of length

* lo ka clani fi ce'u
  being a standard of length

* lo ka mi clani
  my height

* lo ka do clani
  your height

* lo ka lo penbi cu clani
  a pen being long

* lo ka clani
  being long (OR being a dimension of length OR being a standard of length)

> There are at least two ways this sentence can be understood.
> 1. I like tall girls. She is tall. I mean "I like that you are tall". i.e=
.=20
> {ce'u} refers to {lo melbi}.
> 2. I'm a tall boy. She is shortish. I mean "I like that you are short=20
> (given that I'm tall)". i.e. {ce'u} refers to {lo se melbi}.

The definition of {melbi} is:
x=E2=82=81 is beautiful/pleasant to x=E2=82=82 in aspect x=E2=82=83 (ka) by=
 aesthetic standard x=E2=82=84.

Although English is not my first language, I'm pretty sure that when someth=
ing is beautiful in some aspect, that aspect is an aspect of that which is =
beautiful, not of that which perceives the beauty. So interpretation 1 is t=
he correct one.

--=20
Arnt Richard Johansen                                http://arj.nvg.org/
Let's have some real examples from a real, non-English language.

--=20
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