My only complaint that we have a= nice shortcut of saying {du'u ce'u} but we don't have one for {nu ce'u}.

Why is it a= nu? Because you can djica things that don't involve
yourself. (Gua\spi's _daw_ is restricted to desiring to do or be
something, hence it's always like a Lojban ka. And that's why the secon= d=20
example uses a different predicate.)

Again, what is the difference between the Lojban and the gua\spi senten= ce?

Hopefully no semantic difference. Look= s like Lojban just gives more freedom in recombining the same words without= drawing in extra predicates.

>
>>
>> btw, what is your opinion about {ka=3Dsu'u= ce'u}?
>>
>> I'm not sure how to answer that question. = You can say that ka is
>> du'u ce'u, I don't know what the advantage= is in defining ka in
>> terms of su'u, because to me su'u could th= en mean nu or ni, which
>> means that ka could become nu ce'u or ni c= e'u. So why not use a more
>> precise abstractor? Also, what is the poin= t anyway? ka has at least
>> one ce'u in it, that's pretty clear to alm= ost everyone. Why do you
>> need to use su'u here?
>
>
> Well, I used su'u because wasn't sure about {du'u}. And {* l= o ka lo
> penbi cu clani } had bewildered me.
> I just wanna know whether it would be correct to add the def= inition of
> {ka=3Ddu'u ce'u} into jvs or not.

That seems pointless and it's not a real definition either. You can't= =20
blindly replace "ka" with "du'u ce'u". It has been said many times that= =20
"a ka-abstraction is a du'u-abstraction that contains at least one=20
ce'u". This is one view you can have,

I= do. {ka} not always =3D {du'u ce'u}, sure. May be it can be expresse= d as {du'u [...] ce'u}.

I don't know if everybody would=20
agree with it. We don't just add definitions for the cmavo, that's the= =20
job of the - currently idle - BPFK.
Sorry, I don't understand your motivation here. Try to be a bit more=20
clear, please.

Let's stop arguing and let's ce'u-ize = gimste :).

How the new ce'u-ized definitions of gi= smu should look like in ur opinion?

mu'o mi'e la selpa'i
--=20
pilno zo le xu .i lo dei bangu cu se cmene zo lojbo .e nai zo lejbo

do=E1=BB=8B m=C3=A8lbi mlen=C3=AC'u
.i do c=C3=A0tlu ki'u
ma fe la x=C3=A0mpre =C5=ADu
.i do t=C3=ACnsa c=C3=A0rmi
gi'e s=C3=ACrji se t=C3=A0rmi
.i ta=E1=BB=8B bo pu c=C3=ACtka lo gr=C3=A0na ku

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