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Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2012 07:20:26 -0700 (PDT)
From: la gleki <gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com>
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Subject: Re: [lojban] What place of nesting bridi {ce'u} refers to?
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Well, I hope this will be the last message in this thread.
Sorry for not running this thread properly and for poorly formulated=20
questions and ideas.
I have been overwhelmed by other non-lojbanic stuff lately.

anyway ki'esai

On Monday, October 8, 2012 3:55:57 PM UTC+4, selpa'i wrote:
>
> Am 08.10.2012 13:11, schrieb la gleki:=20
> > I also have to say thatit's simpkly strange not to have a simple way to=
=20
> > express logophor in Lojban.=20
> > Actually neither {vo'a} nor {ri} can do the trick.=20
> >=20
> > {vo'a} won't refer to the nesting bridi we need if there are more than=
=20
> > two nesting levels.=20
> > e.g. in {do djuno lo du'u mi djuno lo du'u vo'a stati} /vo'a /refers to=
=20
> > /do/ but we need it to refer to /mi./=20
>
> do djuno lo du'u mi djuno lo du'u lo no'a cu stali=20
>
> > /=20
> > /=20
> > In {.i ta mlatu .i djica lo nu ri sipna kei fa lo remna} /ri/ refers to=
=20
> > the cat whereas we want it to refer to /lo remna/.=20
>
> ta mlatu .i djica lo nu vo'a sipna kei fa lo remna=20
>
> >=20
> > The only way is to use {goi} which produces awkward sentences.=20
> >=20
> > Let's take two examples.=20
> > 1. I'm afraid to revenge [on people]=20
> > 2. I'm afraid of revenge.=20
> >=20
> > 1. lo remna goi ko'a terpa lo nu ko'a venfu=20
> > 2. lo remna terpa lo nu venfu=20
>
> 1. lo remna cu terpa lo nu vo'a venfu=20
> 2. lo remna cu terpa lo nu [vo'a] se venfu=20
>
> You rarely need the "vo'a" or "lo no'a" in such simple sentences,=20
> specifying explicitly only happens when confusion might arise.=20
>
> Lojban does not have a static solution for logophoric pronouns, but it=20
> has the tools for a dynamic one, using vo'a, no'a and nei.=20
>
> mu'o mi'e la selpa'i=20
>
> --=20
> pilno zo le xu .i lo dei bangu cu se cmene zo lojbo .e nai zo lejbo=20
>
> do=E1=BB=8B m=C3=A8lbi mlen=C3=AC'u=20
>     .i do c=C3=A0tlu ki'u=20
> ma fe la x=C3=A0mpre =C5=ADu=20
>     .i do t=C3=ACnsa c=C3=A0rmi=20
> gi'e s=C3=ACrji se t=C3=A0rmi=20
>     .i ta=E1=BB=8B bo pu c=C3=ACtka lo gr=C3=A0na ku=20
>
>
> .=20
>

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Well, I hope this will be the last message in this thread.<div>Sorry for no=
t running this thread properly and for poorly formulated questions and idea=
s.</div><div>I have been overwhelmed by other non-lojbanic stuff lately.</d=
iv><div><br></div><div>anyway ki'esai<br><br>On Monday, October 8, 2012 3:5=
5:57 PM UTC+4, selpa'i wrote:<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"mar=
gin: 0;margin-left: 0.8ex;border-left: 1px #ccc solid;padding-left: 1ex;">A=
m 08.10.2012 13:11, schrieb la gleki:
<br>&gt; I also have to say thatit's simpkly strange not to have a simple w=
ay to
<br>&gt; express logophor in Lojban.
<br>&gt; Actually neither {vo'a} nor {ri} can do the trick.
<br>&gt;
<br>&gt; {vo'a} won't refer to the nesting bridi we need if there are more =
than
<br>&gt; two nesting levels.
<br>&gt; e.g. in {do djuno lo du'u mi djuno lo du'u vo'a stati} /vo'a /refe=
rs to
<br>&gt; /do/ but we need it to refer to /mi./
<br>
<br>do djuno lo du'u mi djuno lo du'u lo no'a cu stali
<br>
<br>&gt; /
<br>&gt; /
<br>&gt; In {.i ta mlatu .i djica lo nu ri sipna kei fa lo remna} /ri/ refe=
rs to
<br>&gt; the cat whereas we want it to refer to /lo remna/.
<br>
<br>ta mlatu .i djica lo nu vo'a sipna kei fa lo remna
<br>
<br>&gt;
<br>&gt; The only way is to use {goi} which produces awkward sentences.
<br>&gt;
<br>&gt; Let's take two examples.
<br>&gt; 1. I'm afraid to revenge [on people]
<br>&gt; 2. I'm afraid of revenge.
<br>&gt;
<br>&gt; 1. lo remna goi ko'a terpa lo nu ko'a venfu
<br>&gt; 2. lo remna terpa lo nu venfu
<br>
<br>1. lo remna cu terpa lo nu vo'a venfu
<br>2. lo remna cu terpa lo nu [vo'a] se venfu
<br>
<br>You rarely need the "vo'a" or "lo no'a" in such simple sentences,=20
<br>specifying explicitly only happens when confusion might arise.
<br>
<br>Lojban does not have a static solution for logophoric pronouns, but it=
=20
<br>has the tools for a dynamic one, using vo'a, no'a and nei.
<br>
<br>mu'o mi'e la selpa'i
<br>
<br>--=20
<br>pilno zo le xu .i lo dei bangu cu se cmene zo lojbo .e nai zo lejbo
<br>
<br>do=E1=BB=8B m=C3=A8lbi mlen=C3=AC'u
<br>&nbsp; &nbsp; .i do c=C3=A0tlu ki'u
<br>ma fe la x=C3=A0mpre =C5=ADu
<br>&nbsp; &nbsp; .i do t=C3=ACnsa c=C3=A0rmi
<br>gi'e s=C3=ACrji se t=C3=A0rmi
<br>&nbsp; &nbsp; .i ta=E1=BB=8B bo pu c=C3=ACtka lo gr=C3=A0na ku
<br>
<br>
<br>.
<br></blockquote></div>

<p></p>

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