On Sun, Sep 16, 2012 at= 11:28 AM, selpa'i <seladwa@gmx.de> wrote:

Am 16.09.2012 17:08, schrieb Michael Turniansky:

=A0 Ah, so NOW I see where you are coming from. =A0You believe that, contra= ry to the CLL, "a word must never begin with a vowel", and that t= he denpa bu must always be a glottal stop, not just a pause. =A0Both are co= ntradicted by Chapter 3 of the CLL,

The CLL's view on this topic is not very coherent. The CLL simply overl= ooks a lot of this and is therefore outdated.

=A0 I find no incoherence on the topic nor outdatedness. =A0YMMV=A0

and lojban as it is actually used.

As it is used by some. Those that understand the things I'm trying to e= xplain here (and agree with it) have already changed their way of using Loj= ban to make it make more sense. You are not aware of all Lojban usage out t= here, so this is an argument out of ignorance.

=A0 =A0No, but I have heard a lot of lojban over the pa= st 8 years. =A0And with the exception of one person (and I guess, you), I h= aven't heard anyone treat them as glottal stops.

=A0

Since are talking about some theoretical language that you use, and not loj= ban, there is no point in continuing this discussion, as we are talking abo= ut two different languages.

If by Lojban you mean what the CLL describes, then yes, that is not a langu= age I'm speaking and nor is anybody else I consider a good speaker of L= ojban. There is no point in bringing up the CLL in matters that it clearly = is either inconsistent about or that it adresses poorly. I'm sure you a= re aware of at least some changes that have been made to the original Langu= age described in the CLL. Do you object to all of them because the CLL cont= radicts them, or do you agree with them because they actually make a lot of= sense?

=A0 Well, then, I guess you don't consider me a goo= d speaker of lojban, since I follow the CLL, except perhaps in the one or t= wo areas over the past decades where the BPFK has actually made a decision = contrary to it (but =A0AFAIK nothing has been finalized by them in many man= y years). =A0 But I don't see that in THIS matter I don't see any c= ontradictory ruling by "the powers that be" And while CLL may or = may not be the ultimate authority on "lojban as she is spoke", it= 's the best and most complete one out there to date. =A0Feel free to wr= ite another if you feel it's inadequate. =A0But I like to have my bible= .

=A0 =A0 =A0 --gejyspa