Received: from mail-qa0-f61.google.com ([209.85.216.61]:43422) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1TOPaO-0008Op-B2; Wed, 17 Oct 2012 02:06:50 -0700 Received: by mail-qa0-f61.google.com with SMTP id g14sf492304qab.16 for ; Wed, 17 Oct 2012 02:06:36 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=20120806; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:date:message-id:subject:from :to:x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post :list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=zo7aPLrqcYp2UVUnXdaxpoFYJqYsLj1h/B5QIaegMOA=; b=EAZNaN3VHmP4NooIIQFTjW1ayA5X4SixHbhih5GuBnE/WdugiBYJ4R1RoF8fEvkW6T 3XLvEdae2jtiyZz8QrdAeICD+Cuw8BPhMEh24gupXY+nWE5U1JTwo/rMGDot9NAv9Kd4 6rxPHdH0sn83eP1F9LE3ts76m9bF1AcD2kLHXbqAtUhnk10g72On8UAgz/Mjeg5raa6x lSBZvqDrztJNd7/j+L497LbKgKD4eUALLgYa8mt0nrMr5QCFEndrvC2tFKwFFksE4X3V gqPoACWV+zLNcoXJfwj8hF4LnjUoIh0Ebx7XeOOS39UgAzF5AAbBINlKjCmsyLd03pwr 76og== Received: by 10.50.217.196 with SMTP id pa4mr330643igc.5.1350464795745; Wed, 17 Oct 2012 02:06:35 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.42.73.70 with SMTP id r6ls15289283icj.7.gmail; Wed, 17 Oct 2012 02:06:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.50.0.148 with SMTP id 20mr705390ige.3.1350464794854; Wed, 17 Oct 2012 02:06:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.50.0.148 with SMTP id 20mr705389ige.3.1350464794842; Wed, 17 Oct 2012 02:06:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ia0-f176.google.com (mail-ia0-f176.google.com [209.85.210.176]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id s9si1721217igw.0.2012.10.17.02.06.34 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Wed, 17 Oct 2012 02:06:34 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of escaaape@gmail.com designates 209.85.210.176 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.210.176; Received: by mail-ia0-f176.google.com with SMTP id h11so6646370iae.21 for ; Wed, 17 Oct 2012 02:06:34 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.50.12.138 with SMTP id y10mr846944igb.58.1350464794711; Wed, 17 Oct 2012 02:06:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.64.42.5 with HTTP; Wed, 17 Oct 2012 02:06:34 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2012 11:06:34 +0200 Message-ID: Subject: [lojban] "He didn't start to paint until he was thirty" From: Escape Landsome To: lojban X-Original-Sender: escaaape@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of escaaape@gmail.com designates 209.85.210.176 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=escaaape@gmail.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-2022-JP Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Spam_score: -0.7 X-Spam_score_int: -6 X-Spam_bar: / Today I scrutinize the following sentence in Japanese : 彼は30歳になってから絵をかき始めた。 He didn't start to paint until he was thirty. Strictly speaking, the translation ought to be : "He BEGAN painting at 30". But they say in english : "He DIDN'T START... UNTIL". Now, I find this a little confusing. Not starting to do something has nothing to do with beginning, even "UNTIL". How do Lojban handle this kind of thing ? Regards -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en.