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From: Jacob Errington <nictytan@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2012 11:11:20 -0700
Message-ID: <CAOQ8VDX+XOfvyN1vHeOXRNoSGDkkHFMi-EVNsXSjg8MX=aouYQ@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [lojban] "He didn't start to paint until he was thirty"
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On 17 October 2012 02:06, Escape Landsome <escaaape@gmail.com> wrote:

> Today I scrutinize the following sentence in Japanese :
>
> 彼は３０歳になってから絵をかき始めた。
> He didn't start to paint until he was thirty.
>
> Strictly speaking, the translation ought to be : "He BEGAN painting at 30".
>
> But they say in english : "He DIDN'T START... UNTIL".
>
> Now, I find this a little confusing.   Not starting to do something
> has nothing to do with beginning, even "UNTIL".
>
>
Of course {.i pirfi'i co'a lo nu nanca li cino}, but that doesn't capture
the essence of "not until".
To handle that, assuming that the CLL's interpretation of NA is the one
we're discussing, (selpa'i's solution is fine if you work under the
assumption that {na} is entirely equivalent to in-place {naku}, but it's
incorrect if you operate under CLL-na,) we can use bridi-final naku, which
appears to be much more complicated in theory than it is in practice:

.i co'u lo nu nanca li cino cu pirfi'i naku

With this case, naku negates only {pirfi'i}, which means that the
predication tensed by {co'u lo nu nanca li cino} is the negative
predication. The negative predication ends when {lo nu nanca li cino}
becomes true.

.i mi'e la tsani mu'o

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