Received: from mail-ie0-f189.google.com ([209.85.223.189]:57424)
	by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128)
	(Exim 4.76)
	(envelope-from <lojban+bncBC65FOEL4UJRBHMV4GCAKGQEZY3QS3A@googlegroups.com>)
	id 1TVW1n-00069w-Cg; Mon, 05 Nov 2012 15:24:31 -0800
Received: by mail-ie0-f189.google.com with SMTP id c10sf4874657ieb.16
        for <multiple recipients>; Mon, 05 Nov 2012 15:24:14 -0800 (PST)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;
        d=googlegroups.com; s=20120806;
        h=x-beenthere:received-spf:x-authenticated:x-provags-id:message-id
         :date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:subject:references:in-reply-to
         :x-y-gmx-trusted:x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results
         :reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id:x-google-group-id
         :list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe
         :list-unsubscribe:content-type:content-transfer-encoding;
        bh=/GkKa8yE/x/LQQWWhdNRjf3beKQsNcgdOGWsTQP5cOE=;
        b=Pg1ri0nDjxUGX7rj2OGYeFMgd7Bv4d/kH1c0shSb0B2xUC06Ko+y9muGQiajzOKgmN
         XpwnkUarE03TR+K7/amvtauLiNy7raszbfV3AdoQuAVnpvLznNlhAWS2nVws5wSNoTbb
         3xpGRPn6GK2qi1Lzf4iFFWAZ9gP+qLlPwRs6ZoXko5y7LslvDH/npI/jkRigdAiZq19+
         sIPASEW6ETLddSkSxklSMHcZNclUToqs3WslKAGrAviZ/7tpXU33wL8aNBJAYWqZBpAa
         k2IXmNS9tsU2s9l3NH2PkvIf78PVjqEGGlXB7MOe5I4kn/F78MfWyRrwAKX3aJe16ht2
         GmaQ==
Received: by 10.68.229.231 with SMTP id st7mr2714498pbc.2.1352157854517;
        Mon, 05 Nov 2012 15:24:14 -0800 (PST)
X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com
Received: by 10.68.190.100 with SMTP id gp4ls26066573pbc.9.gmail; Mon, 05 Nov
 2012 15:24:13 -0800 (PST)
Received: by 10.66.86.39 with SMTP id m7mr4327600paz.4.1352157853587;
        Mon, 05 Nov 2012 15:24:13 -0800 (PST)
Received: by 10.66.86.39 with SMTP id m7mr4327599paz.4.1352157853578;
        Mon, 05 Nov 2012 15:24:13 -0800 (PST)
Received: from mailout-de.gmx.net (mailout-de.gmx.net. [213.165.64.22])
        by gmr-mx.google.com with SMTP id yl8si4308916pbc.1.2012.11.05.15.24.12;
        Mon, 05 Nov 2012 15:24:13 -0800 (PST)
Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of seladwa@gmx.de designates 213.165.64.22 as permitted sender) client-ip=213.165.64.22;
Received: (qmail invoked by alias); 05 Nov 2012 23:24:11 -0000
Received: from p57A093E6.dip0.t-ipconnect.de (EHLO [192.168.1.33]) [87.160.147.230]
  by mail.gmx.net (mp010) with SMTP; 06 Nov 2012 00:24:11 +0100
X-Authenticated: #54293076
X-Provags-ID: V01U2FsdGVkX18pJ11ndrspZwibhbnWbOmwrSHYOAm0txTE4fCoHY
	gdX53FKIDkvf3y
Message-ID: <50984A9B.1010806@gmx.de>
Date: Tue, 06 Nov 2012 00:24:11 +0100
From: selpa'i <seladwa@gmx.de>
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 5.1; rv:16.0) Gecko/20121026 Thunderbird/16.0.2
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: lojban@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [lojban] Translating "as"
References: <0457f359-c515-465c-8e11-7e12f1d9e6bb@googlegroups.com> <509827ED.6040603@gmail.com> <50983198.9070305@gmx.de> <509837C3.5030207@gmx.de> <CAMKwHj0oLUB=RxMyPcFs9b4boCv0_2JjAv3L0h=fJU=nKZaXow@mail.gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <CAMKwHj0oLUB=RxMyPcFs9b4boCv0_2JjAv3L0h=fJU=nKZaXow@mail.gmail.com>
X-Y-GMX-Trusted: 0
X-Original-Sender: seladwa@gmx.de
X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com:
 domain of seladwa@gmx.de designates 213.165.64.22 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=seladwa@gmx.de
Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com
Precedence: list
Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com
List-ID: <lojban.googlegroups.com>
X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417
List-Post: <http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/post?hl=en_US>, <mailto:lojban@googlegroups.com>
List-Help: <http://groups.google.com/support/?hl=en_US>, <mailto:lojban+help@googlegroups.com>
List-Archive: <http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en_US>
Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com
List-Subscribe: <http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/subscribe?hl=en_US>, <mailto:lojban+subscribe@googlegroups.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/subscribe?hl=en_US>, <mailto:googlegroups-manage+1004133512417+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/)
X-Spam_score: 0.3
X-Spam_score_int: 3
X-Spam_bar: /
X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "stodi.digitalkingdom.org", has
 identified this incoming email as possible spam.  The original message
 has been attached to this so you can view it (if it isn't spam) or label
 similar future email.  If you have any questions, see
 the administrator of that system for details.
 
 Content preview:  Am 05.11.2012 23:39, schrieb Jonathan Jones: > Vlasisku is
    back up, for me at any rate. > > The best generic "role" BAI I can find is
    ci'e, which is the ciste modal. > > Looking up "role" or its synoyms "function"and
    "faculty" finds nothing > useful. > > "Occupation" and "job" both find jibri,
    but they aren't close enough to > the sense of "role" for this purpose. >
    > Based on my 5-minutes of research, it seems we might need to make a new
    > word, and I don't think we can get the desired meaning with lujvo, so >
    that leaves fu'ivla or gismu. [...] 
 
 Content analysis details:   (0.3 points, 5.0 required)
 
  pts rule name              description
 ---- ---------------------- --------------------------------------------------
  0.0 FREEMAIL_FROM          Sender email is commonly abused enduser mail provider
                             (seladwa[at]gmx.de)
 -0.7 RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW      RBL: Sender listed at http://www.dnswl.org/, low
                             trust
                             [209.85.223.189 listed in list.dnswl.org]
 -0.0 SPF_PASS               SPF: sender matches SPF record
  1.0 FRT_ROLEX              BODY: ReplaceTags: Rolex
  0.1 DKIM_SIGNED            Message has a DKIM or DK signature, not necessarily valid
 -0.1 DKIM_VALID             Message has at least one valid DKIM or DK signature

Am 05.11.2012 23:39, schrieb Jonathan Jones:
> Vlasisku is back up, for me at any rate.
>
> The best generic "role" BAI I can find is ci'e, which is the ciste modal.
>
> Looking up "role" or its synoyms "function"and "faculty" finds nothing
> useful.
>
> "Occupation" and "job" both find jibri, but they aren't close enough to
> the sense of "role" for this purpose.
>
> Based on my 5-minutes of research, it seems we might need to make a new
> word, and I don't think we can get the desired meaning with lujvo, so
> that leaves fu'ivla or gismu.

If a word is really needed (which is very possible), what should its=20
place structure be? I think this is an important step in understanding=20
the semantics at hand. If a sensible place structure can't be found,=20
then there is a problem with the concept somewhere.

x1 has/assumes role x2 in affair/event/situation x3

or in a different order

x1 is the role that x2 has in affair/event/situation x3

How about that?

mu'o mi'e la selpa'i

--=20
pilno zo le xu .i lo dei bangu cu se cmene zo lojbo .e nai zo lejbo

do=E1=BB=8B m=C3=A8lbi mlen=C3=AC'u
    .i do c=C3=A0tlu ki'u
ma fe la x=C3=A0mpre =C5=ADu
    .i do t=C3=ACnsa c=C3=A0rmi
gi'e s=C3=ACrji se t=C3=A0rmi
    .i ta=E1=BB=8B bo pu c=C3=ACtka lo gr=C3=A0na ku


.


.

--=20
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "=
lojban" group.
To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou=
ps.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban=
?hl=3Den.