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Subject: Re: [lojban] {zo'i} vs. {fa'a}
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Am 07.11.2012 15:57, schrieb la gleki:
>
>
> On Wednesday, November 7, 2012 6:41:11 PM UTC+4, selpa'i wrote:
>
>     Upon further reflection, I have concluded that only the event
>     interpretation makes sense, so
>
>     mi zutse zo'i lo rirxe
>
>     would expand to
>
>     lo nu mi zutse cu tolragve lo rirxe [lo manri]
>
>     "I'm sitting on this/the same side of the river."
>
>
> Which tags refer to an arguments and which refer to the bridi?
> Is there a table of tags classified by this distinction?

As far as I am aware, no such table exists. In my personal opinion, any=20
tags whose root place structure allow an event place somewhere should=20
redistribute the event of the bridi into that place. For tags where an=20
event place doesn't exist, the solution is less straightforward, but I=20
think that in many cases, it can be systemized by use of thematic roles=20
(e.g. agent, patient, etc).
I don't think such a formalization has been done yet, but I would very=20
much like to work on it, because as of right now, many tags have very=20
blurry semantics.

mi sanga bau lo lojbo

What does bau semantically attach to? Leaving that up to context is not=20
satisfactory, so there must be an unambiguous machanism to determine the=20
relationship of a tag to the bridi or its sumti.
Does bau attach to the event of the bridi? Does it attach to mi? To sanga2?
My preferred solution for this particular example has been to say that=20
bangu3 takes the event of the bridi thus:

lo lojbo cu bangu fi lo nu mi sanga

Which means that bangu3 needs to be changed to something like "... [to=20
communicate] in situation x3". (Not a big deal because I have never seen=20
bangu3 used)

Under the light of this idea, many gismu need slight alterations (most=20
of which probably would not break usage). The reward is a robust=20
semantical system.

There are edge cases where both interpretations could be argued for, a=20
good example is {se rai}. As far as I can tell, it has always been used=20
to refer to a sumti, usually the place that would be assigned the=20
"agent" theta role:

mi bajra se rai lo ka sutra
I run as fast as possible.

I think this has questionable semantics, because none of the=20
interactions have been formalized. It could also be taken to mean:

lo nu mi bajra cu traji lo ka sutra

Which has a type error, since an event is not a sutra1.

Such examples exist all over the place, I think it's clear why something=20
has to be done about it, especially if one of Lojban's Goals is to=20
communicate with computers one day.

If anybody else is interested in discussing this - in my opinion - very=20
important topic, I'd be glad to exchange some ideas.

mu'o mi'e la selpa'i
--=20
pilno zo le xu .i lo dei bangu cu se cmene zo lojbo .e nai zo lejbo

do=E1=BB=8B m=C3=A8lbi mlen=C3=AC'u
    .i do c=C3=A0tlu ki'u
ma fe la x=C3=A0mpre =C5=ADu
    .i do t=C3=ACnsa c=C3=A0rmi
gi'e s=C3=ACrji se t=C3=A0rmi
    .i ta=E1=BB=8B bo pu c=C3=ACtka lo gr=C3=A0na ku


.


.

--=20
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