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[94.234.170.219]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id sy1sm1202935lab.16.2012.11.11.01.24.35 (version=SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Sun, 11 Nov 2012 01:24:37 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: A new Lojbanic wiki (LMW). On the threshold of the 25th anniversary of Lojban References: <75e248bd-5f19-4528-8b2a-f6360bca7e2f@googlegroups.com> <3e6ec3ab-6f44-42b2-a255-8d5f1a2b5444@googlegroups.com> <609a986d-438d-41b0-89ce-bb3788885c04@googlegroups.com> <7c00388b-7a75-4c50-94c7-8fe780ed7849@googlegroups.com> <763ae57a-a53d-4e0a-a042-99e282ec411f@googlegroups.com> <98ac3a8c-7f91-4049-a8ee-128f9a947671@googlegroups.com> <60b24557-d28a-4330-91e2-4fa350f35cbd@googlegroups.com> <031b0b7d-6892-44ae-bf20-e76c51b93a21@googlegroups.com> <0ef2b6e2-db09-4379-9167-3f49889d70d6@googlegroups.com> From: Sebastian X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (10A403) In-Reply-To: <0ef2b6e2-db09-4379-9167-3f49889d70d6@googlegroups.com> Message-Id: <773B907C-5229-42FA-A937-D5BA292A6E2C@gmail.com> Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2012 10:24:33 +0100 To: "lojban@googlegroups.com" Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) X-Original-Sender: so.cool.ogi@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of so.cool.ogi@gmail.com designates 209.85.217.179 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=so.cool.ogi@gmail.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-15FF81D2-D13A-479F-8132-D75B5720F285 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam_score: 0.0 X-Spam_score_int: 0 X-Spam_bar: / --Apple-Mail-15FF81D2-D13A-479F-8132-D75B5720F285 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable >=20 >=20 > On Saturday, November 10, 2012 10:36:58 PM UTC+4, jongausib wrote: >>=20 >> I really like the idea of having a better website for lojban .ausai >> I'm not a computer programmer, I often feel a bit limited when I discuss= things in english (no one out there who can translate from swedish to engl= ish for me? ;) > .e'u mi'o tavla bau lo jbobau vau u'iru'e > =20 >> , I don't have much time (but I really like constructing lujvos (systema= tically; subject by subject), so I'm probably going to contribute in that w= ay a loot in the future). >>=20 >> Anyhow, I've just got some proposals for your project. The most of it so= unds awesome, but here what comes to my mind: >> * I think it's important with a very esthetic, clear and distinct layout= , so visitors easily find the information they're looking for and also havi= ng a good impression of the lojban language (and community). I really must = say that the current lojban.org doesn't looks rather dull :( >=20 > So is it dull or not dull? dull > =20 >>=20 >> * What I really would like to have is a list of all lojban projects, cur= rent status (completed, almost completed but open for editing, suggested bu= t not yet started etc), project last updated-info, click to become a member= in the respectively project group, project cathegories like translation pr= ojects, technical projects, social projects, vocabulary, vote for how impor= tant you think each project is etc. It is very important to get an overvie= w of the status of the whole lojban devolopment I think. >=20 > Everything that you just said is not a programmer's work. The "programmer= " 's work has already been done. > Just register and start developing the wiki. > Everything that is true for Wikipedia is true for our LMW so if you have = some problems you can contact Wikipedia developers (there are plenty of the= m on the planet) and then implement it's features in LMW. If you need extra= administrative rights just inform me. Ok, I'll check it out. Could you give me administrative rights please and I= 'll see what I can do. >=20 > =20 >>=20 >> * Forum with distinct cathegories/subjects, instead of the mailing list. >=20 > Probably although i'm against splitting the community into separate forum= s. On the other hand, the more lojbanic places the better. >=20 >=20 >>=20 >> I don't think if all this is possible to work out, but this is my vision= of what the lojbanic internet community ba se binxo. >>=20 >> How do you say "good luck" in lojban? >=20 > di'ai=20 >=20 > And again many suggestions, no actual work. > i mutce lo ka lojbo fadni vau uinai i pe'i lo nu mi a. lo datra jnopre ku stidi da kei xlame'a lo dukti be ri l= o jboce'u i ku'i mi ba troci lo nu sidju >>=20 >> mu'omi'e jongausib goi sebastian >>=20 >> 2012/11/7 la gleki >>> Translate Extension has been tuned up (ki'e entot !). >>>=20 >>> Using this extension you can translate the content of any page into oth= er languages. >>> If we ever move the CLL, Wave lessons and L4B to this wiki you will be = able to translate them chunk by chunk to other languages that you speak. >>> Note that if the source is changed the extension notices this and infor= m that the translation to another language is out of date. >>> This is how we can put speakers of all languages (not only English) in= equal conditions when learning Lojban. >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> On Tuesday, November 6, 2012 9:49:10 AM UTC+4, la gleki wrote: >>>>=20 >>>> The wiki has moved to http://mw.lojban.org/ >>>>=20 >>>> On Monday, November 5, 2012 5:22:48 PM UTC+4, la gleki wrote: >>>>>=20 >>>>> Now Mediawiki has full support for localising any given page to anoth= er language. The solution is not ideal, it uses a simple template (anyway, = ki'ecai .brendyn. for letting know about about this simplest tool) >>>>>=20 >>>>> http://vrici.lojban.org/~gleki/mw/index.php/Template:Ralju >>>>>=20 >>>>> If you think the template can be made a bit nicer plase let me know. >>>>> Anyway, now nothing can stop us from starting to really work on this = wiki. >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>> On Thursday, October 4, 2012 11:59:32 AM UTC+4, la gleki wrote: >>>>>>=20 >>>>>>=20 >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> On Saturday, September 29, 2012 4:57:37 PM UTC+4, la gleki wrote: >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>> On Saturday, September 29, 2012 12:15:54 PM UTC+4, Marica Odagaki w= rote: >>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>> .uisai I'm all for adopting MediaWiki as the official wiki. >>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>> > Please, develop the wiki, edit it yourself. Tell me what you nee= d. Let's make it better than the old one. Together. >>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>> I have a few suggestions to make this project better yet: >>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>> A. Set short-term goals. >>>>>>>> - 1. Create overview pages targeted at newcomers/learning & teachi= ng/etc. >>>>>>>> - 2. Go over all the TikiWiki pages and migrate them where necessa= ry. >>>>>>>> Last time I checked, there are 2357 of them. >>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>> B. Broadly categorize pages. >>>>>>>> - About: introduction to the language and organizations >>>>>>>> - Guides: learning materials, faq >>>>>>>> - Documentation: grammar documentation/dictionary/baseline definit= ion >>>>>>>> - Writings: Lojbanic writings/multimedia/games >>>>>>>> - Encyclopedia of related topics >>>>>>>> - News >>>>>>>> - Projects >>>>>>>> - Participation guides >>>>>>>> - People >>>>>>>> - Proposals >>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>> (Discussions should happen in the "Talk" side of the page.) >>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>> These are gleaned from a wiki pages categorization project >>>>>>>> I'd been tackling by myself: >>>>>>>> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=3D0AqPDUjCrM_cfdDI5NzB= IMzhCRHZJWGF2Tzl4R245N3c >>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>> Giving the wiki a minimum structure will help grow it without fall= ing into a chaotic state. >>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>> C. Define what goes into the wiki, and state it in the wiki. >>>>>>>> - All of the above (in B.) >>>>>>>> - Questions should be asked in the mailing-list first. >>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>> Do these sound all good? >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>> go'isai >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>> Especially "minimum structure". I don't want lojban.org/tiki to be = shut down. >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>> AND NOW IMPORTANT MESSAGE. >>>>>>> Robin INSTALLED MEDIAWIKI ON HIS SERVER. THE CURRENT ADDRESS IS >>>>>>> http://vrici.lojban.org/~gleki/mw/index.php/ralju_ckupau >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>> Problems that I can see so far: >>>>>>> 1. I can't create folders in the root of mediawiki installation. An= d probably therefore impossible to upload files. >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> Solved.=20 >>>>>>=20 >>>>>>> 2. Not only I should have sftp access to that root folder (who is f= amiliar with MediaWiki? Whom can we trust?) >>>>>>> 3. I haven't found appropriate extension to localise wiki pages on = the fly like it is done in Tiki. >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> Translate Extension installed.=20 >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>> I hope Robin will fix the first problem himself. >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>> As for the third problem I'm waiting for suggestions. >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>> mu'o >>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>> On Thursday, September 27, 2012 1:23:10 PM UTC+9, la gleki wrote: >>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>> On Wednesday, September 26, 2012 10:20:20 PM UTC+4, iesk wrote: >>>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>>> Thank you for the clarification. >>>>>>>>>> What does the logo in the upper left part of the screen stand fo= r? >>>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>> Well, just 25 years of Lojban, nothing more. >>>>>>>>> =20 >>>>>>>>>> Oh, and the opening page is currently filled with some non-Lojba= n text. Maybe the standard propaganda ( http://www.lojban.org/tiki/la%20loj= ban.%20mo?no_bl=3Dy ) would be fitting? >>>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>>> iesk >>>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>> Please, develop the wiki, edit it yourself. Tell me what you need= . Let's make it better than the old one. Together. >>>=20 >>> --=20 >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Grou= ps "lojban" group. >>> To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/ms= g/lojban/-/2qiOP1A6weoJ. >>>=20 >>> To post to this group, send email to loj...@googlegroups.com. >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+un...@googlegroups= .com. >>> For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lo= jban?hl=3Den. > --=20 > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups= "lojban" group. > To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/= lojban/-/rZnI8czUylgJ. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegr= oups.com. > For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojb= an?hl=3Den. --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den. --Apple-Mail-15FF81D2-D13A-479F-8132-D75B5720F285 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable




On Saturday, November 10, 2012 10:36:58 PM UT= C+4, jongausib wrote:
I really = like the idea of having a better website for lojban .ausai
I'm not a com= puter programmer, I often feel a bit limited when I discuss things in engli= sh (no one out there who can translate from swedish to english for me? ;)
.e'u mi'o tavla bau lo jbobau vau u'iru'e
 <= /div>
, I don't have much time = (but I really like constructing lujvos (systematically; subject by subject)= , so I'm probably going to contribute in that way a loot in the future).
Anyhow, I've just got some proposals for your project. The most of it s= ounds awesome, but here what comes to my mind:
* I think it's important = with a very esthetic, clear and distinct layout, so visitors easily find th= e information they're looking for and also having a good impression of the = lojban language (and community). I really must say that the current lojban.org doesn't looks rathe= r dull :(

So is it dull or not dull?

dull
 

* What I really would like to have is a list of all lojban projects, cu= rrent status (completed, almost completed but open for editing, suggested b= ut not yet started etc), project last updated-info, click to become a membe= r in the respectively project group, project cathegories like translation p= rojects, technical projects, social projects, vocabulary, vote for how impo= rtant you think each project is etc. It is very important  to get an o= verview of the status of the whole lojban devolopment I think.

Everything that you just said is not a programmer'= s work. The "programmer" 's work has already been done.
Just regi= ster and start developing the wiki.
Everything that is true for W= ikipedia is true for our LMW so if you have some problems you can contact W= ikipedia developers (there are plenty of them on the planet) and then imple= ment it's features in LMW. If you need extra administrative rights just inf= orm me.

Ok, I'll check it out. Could= you give me administrative rights please and I'll see what I can do.

 

* Forum with distinct cathegories/subjects, instead of the mailing list= .

Probably although i'm against splitti= ng the community into separate forums. On the other hand, the more lojbanic= places the better.



I don't think if all this is possible to work = out, but this is my vision of what the lojbanic internet community ba se bi= nxo.

How do you say "good luck" in lojban?

d= i'ai 

And again many suggestions, no actual w= ork.
i mutce lo ka lojbo fadni vau uinai
= i pe'i lo nu mi a. lo datra jnopre ku stidi da kei xlame'a lo dukti be ri l= o jboce'u  i ku'i mi ba troci lo nu sidju


mu'omi'e jongau= sib goi sebastian

2012/11/7 la gleki <gleki.is...@gmail.com>
Translate Extension has been tuned up (ki'e = entot !).

Using this extension you can translate the content o= f any page into other languages.
If we ever move the CLL, Wave lessons and L4B to this wiki you will be= able to translate them chunk by chunk to other languages that you speak.
Note that if the source is changed the extension notices this and = inform that the translation to another language is out of date.
This is how we can put speakers  of all languages (not only Engli= sh) in equal conditions when learning Lojban.


O= n Tuesday, November 6, 2012 9:49:10 AM UTC+4, la gleki wrote:
The wiki has moved to http://mw.lojban.org/

On Monday, November 5, 2012 5:22:48 PM UTC+4, la gleki wrote:Now Mediawiki has full support for localising= any given page to another language. The solution is not ideal, it uses a s= imple template (anyway, ki'ecai .brendyn. for letting know about about this= simplest tool)


If you think the template can be made a bit nicer plase= let me know.
Anyway, now nothing can stop us from starting to re= ally work on this wiki.


On Thursday, October 4, 2012 11:5= 9:32 AM UTC+4, la gleki wrote:


On Saturday, September 29, 2012 4:57:37 PM UTC+4, la gleki wrote:

On Saturday, September 29, 20= 12 12:15:54 PM UTC+4, Marica Odagaki wrote:
.uisai I'm all for adopting MediaWiki as the official wiki.
=
> Please, develop the wiki, edit it yourself. Tell me wha= t you need. Let's make it better than the old one. Together.

I have a few suggestions to make this project bet= ter yet:

A. Set short-term goals.
- 1. C= reate overview pages targeted at newcomers/learning & teaching/etc.
- 2. Go over all the TikiWiki pages and migrate them where necessary.<= /div>
     Last time I checked, there are 2357 of them.<= /div>


B. Broadly categorize pages.
<= div>- About: introduction to the language and organizations
- Guides: learning materials, faq
- Documentation: grammar d= ocumentation/dictionary/baseline definition
- Writing= s: Lojbanic writings/multimedia/games
- Encyclopedia of related t= opics
- News
- Projects
- Participation guides
- People
- Proposals

(Discussions shoul= d happen in the "Talk" side of the page.)

These are gleaned from a wiki pages categorization project
I= 'd been tackling by myself:

Giving the wiki a minimum structure will help grow it w= ithout falling into a chaotic state.


C. Define what goes into the wiki, and state it in the wiki.
- All of the above (in B.)
- Questions should be asked in the mai= ling-list first.


Do these sound all= good?

go'isai

Especially "minimum structure". I don't want lojban.org/tiki to be shut down.

AND NOW IMPORTANT MESSAGE.
Robin INSTALLED ME= DIAWIKI ON HIS SERVER. THE CURRENT ADDRESS IS

Problems that I can see so far:
1. I can't cr= eate folders in the root of mediawiki installation. And probably therefore = impossible to upload files.

Solved.&n= bsp;

2. Not only I s= hould have sftp access to that root folder (who is familiar with MediaWiki?= Whom can we trust?)
3. I haven't found appropriate extension to localise wiki pages = on the fly like it is done in Tiki.

T= ranslate Extension installed. 


I hope Robin will  fix the first pr= oblem himself.

As for the third problem I'm waitin= g for suggestions.



mu'o


On Thursday, Se= ptember 27, 2012 1:23:10 PM UTC+9, la gleki wrote:


On Wednesday, September 26, 2012 10:20:20 PM UTC+4, iesk wrote:Thank you for the clarification.

What= does the logo in the upper left part of the screen stand for?

Well, just 25 years of Lojban, nothing more.
&n= bsp;

Oh, and the opening pa= ge is currently filled with some non-Lojban text. Maybe the standard propag= anda ( http://www.lojban.org/tiki/la%20lojban.%20mo?n= o_bl=3Dy<= /span> ) would be fitting?

iesk



Please, develop = the wiki, edit it yourself. Tell me what you need. Let's make it better tha= n the old one. Together.
=

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