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Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2012 17:04:13 -0800
From: Robin Lee Powell <rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org>
To: lojban@googlegroups.com
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Subject: [lojban] ije + naku ?
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Is there any reason *not* to so modify the parser?  I'm really
surprised this restriction exints; does anyone know the reason?

-Robin

On Mon, Nov 12, 2012 at 07:37:05AM +0900, guskant wrote:
> u'i the robotrans did a quite good job. Masato made a mistake about
> the destination of the message. It should have been sent to
> lojban-soudan@googlegroups.com .
> 
> Btw, as shown here in the chat record, examples in CLL Chapter 16,
> 
> 10.5)  roda zo'u mi prami da .ije naku zo'u do prami da
>        For each thing: I love it, and it is false that you love (the same) it.
> 10.6)  su'oda zo'u mi prami da
>             .ije naku zo'u do prami da
>        For at least one thing: I love that thing.
>             And it is false that: you love that (same) thing.
>        There is something that I love that you don’t.
> 
> produce a parse error because of the raw {zo'u} after {ije}.
> 
> If the logical connective in the examples were of forethought, that is,
> 
> 10.5-1) roda zo'u ge mi prami da gi naku zo'u do prami da
> 10.6-1) su'oda zo'u ge mi prami da gi naku zo'u do prami da
> 
> they would have been parsed with no error.
> 
> In my opinion, the examples 10.5) and 10.6) are incorrect, and should
> be modified in the next version of CLL. However, someone thinks the
> forms of afterthought connective should be accepted, and the parser
> should be modified. How do you think?
> 
> 
> On Mon, Nov 12, 2012 at 4:52 AM, MorphemeAddict <lytlesw@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Here's the gmail robotrans:
> > coi ro do
> >
> > Cheers for good work CLL study group was 44th.
> > And I will receive the minutes of the study session, the guide of the next
> > schedule.
> >
> > CLL is the 45th study session we expected to be carried out in the following
> > content.
> >
> > (Japan Standard Time) 21:00 to 23:00 (Sunday): 11/25 Date
> >
> > Charge / Range: from Chapter 17, in charge of coral iocikun.
> >
> >
> > Minutes:
> >
> > guskant sunolili: 10.5) 10.6) results in an error. because it can not afford
> > the bare zo'u after ije.
> > When I try to form earlier canto
> > 10.3-1) roda zo'u mi. Enai do prami da
> > 10.4-1) roda zo'u mi prami da. Ijenai do prami da
> > na so corresponds to the external negation of predicate logic, ijenai if
> > representing the external negation of the rear,
> > 10.4-2) roda zo'u mi prami da. Ije do na prami da
> > Are equivalent.
> > If you connect with ge ... gi instead of ije, and could use a zo'u in the
> > rear,
> >
> > 10.4-3) roda zo'u ge mi prami da gi naku zo'u do prami da
> > Are equivalent.
> > In the form of external negation is obtained by omitting the canto
> > 10.4-4) mi prami roda. Ije do prami roda naku
> > Should be equal as well as meaning.
> >
> > guskant sunolili: da zo'u di broda da
> > guskant sunolili: = da di zo'u di broda da?
> > guskant sunolili: 11.4) = su'oda poi verba naku su'ode poi ckule zo'u ...
> > guskant sunolili: pe naku
> > https://groups.google.com/group/lojban/browse_thread/thread/16794aa41c579665/
> > guskant sunolili: naku zo'u ga ... gi = genai ... ginai ...
> > .. Da naku klama ge la paris gi la rom = da naku zo'u de goi ge: Good
> > country heavy Castle
> >
> > la paris. gi la rom. zo'u da klama de
> > .. Da naku de po'u ge la paris gi la rom zo'u da klama de: Good country
> > heavy Castle
> > .. Da de po'u ganai la paris ginai la rom zo'u da klama de: Good country
> > heavy Castle
> > guskant sunolili:. 12.10) = ga la paris na se klama la djan gi la rom.
> >
> > na se klama la djan.
> > guskant sunolili:.. 12.11) = la djan na klama ge la paris gi la rom.
> > ro bu'a zo'u segu bu'a gi anyway ...: guskant sunolili
> > .. La jan zo'u ce'u klama = la jan klama: Good country heavy Castle
> > . Da goi la jan zo'u da klama: Good country castle double application apply
> > =: Good country - Castle (coming> x \ x) Heavy Jean Country: Castle double
> > good
> > .. La jan la paris zo'u ce'u klama ce'u: Good country heavy Castle
> > .. La paris la jan zo'u ce'u xi re klama ce'u xi pa: Good country heavy
> > Castle
> > Lu'i ci da poi prenu cu se ralju pa da: Good country heavy Castle
> > ! Le gerku poi blabi zi'e poi batci le nanmu cu klama = le gerku: Good
> > country heavy Castle
> > poi blabi cu klama. ije le gerku poi batci le nanmu cu klama
> >
> > guskant sunolili: http://mhagiwara.github.com/cll-ja/chapter8.html # ex4.1
> > guskant sunolili: "zi'e in English and will be translated as well, it's not
> > a true logical conjunction."
> > I have a similar connection so limited in the case of e poi: guskant
> > sunolili
> > . lo gerku cu klama ije lo gerku cu batci: Good country castle double
> > extension is equal to: guskant sunolili
> >
> > guskant sunolili: le gerku poi ge blabi gi batci ...
> > guskant sunolili: ... gi ... I could use instead of zi'e (da'i)
> > Poi gi blabi gi batci: Good country heavy Castle
> > Poi gi poi blabi gi poi batci: Good country heavy Castle
> > Poi blabi gi batci: Good country heavy Castle
> >
> > -
> > Masato HAGIWARA
> > http://lilyx.net/
> >
> >
> > stevo
> >
> >
> > 2012/11/11 Robin Lee Powell <rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org>
> >>
> >> Looks pretty clearly to not be spam; can anyone read it?
> >>
> >> -Robin
> >>
> >> On Sun, Nov 11, 2012 at 09:53:51AM -0500, Masato Hagiwara wrote:
> >> > coi ro do
> >> >
> >> > 第44回 CLL 勉強会おつかれさまでした。
> >> > 勉強会の議事録と、次回日程のご案内を差し上げます。
> >> >
> >> > 第45回CLL 勉強会は下記内容での実施を予定しております。
> >> >
> >> > 日時：11/25(日) 21:00-23:00 (日本時間)
> >> >
> >> > 範囲/担当：第17章から、iocikun. さんご担当
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > 議事録：
> >> >
> >> > guskant sunolili: 10.5) 10.6) はエラーになる。 ije の後にむき出しの zo'u を置けないため。
> >> > 先に冠頭形にしてみると
> >> > 10.3-1) roda zo'u mi .enai do prami da
> >> > 10.4-1) roda zo'u mi prami da .ijenai do prami da
> >> > na は述語論理の外部否定に相当するので、 ijenai が後部の外部否定を表すならば、
> >> > 10.4-2) roda zo'u mi prami da .ije do na prami da
> >> > も同じ意味になる。
> >> > ijeの代わりに ge ... gi で接続すれば、後部に zo'uが使えて、
> >> > 10.4-3) roda zo'u ge mi prami da gi naku zo'u do prami da
> >> > も同じ意味になる。
> >> > 冠頭を省いた外部否定の形では
> >> > 10.4-4) mi prami roda .ije do prami roda naku
> >> > としても意味は等しいはず。
> >> > guskant sunolili: da zo'u di broda da
> >> > guskant sunolili: = da di zo'u di broda da ?
> >> > guskant sunolili: 11.4) = su'oda poi verba naku su'ode poi ckule zo'u
> >> > ...
> >> > guskant sunolili: pe naku
> >> >
> >> > https://groups.google.com/group/lojban/browse_thread/thread/16794aa41c579665/
> >> > guskant sunolili: naku zo'u ga ... gi = genai ... ginai ...
> >> > 重城良国: da naku klama ge la paris. gi la rom. = da naku zo'u de goi ge
> >> > la paris. gi la rom. zo'u da klama de
> >> > 重城良国: da naku de po'u ge la paris. gi la rom. zo'u da klama de
> >> > 重城良国: da de po'u ganai la paris. ginai la rom. zo'u da klama de
> >> > guskant sunolili: 12.10) = ga la paris. na se klama la djan gi la rom.
> >> > na se klama la djan.
> >> > guskant sunolili: 12.11) = la djan. na klama ge la paris. gi la rom.
> >> > guskant sunolili: なにしろ ro bu'a zo'u segu bu'a gi ...
> >> > 重城良国: la jan. zo'u ce'u klama = la jan. klama
> >> > 重城良国: (\x -> x 来る) ジャン
> >> > 重城良国: apply = 適用
> >> > 重城良国: da goi la jan. zo'u da klama
> >> > 重城良国: la jan. la paris. zo'u ce'u klama ce'u
> >> > 重城良国: la paris. la jan. zo'u ce'u xi re klama ce'u xi pa
> >> > 重城良国: lu'i ci da poi prenu cu se ralju pa da
> >> > 重城良国: le gerku poi blabi zi'e poi batci le nanmu cu klama != le gerku
> >> > poi blabi cu klama .ije le gerku poi batci le nanmu cu klama
> >> > guskant sunolili: http://mhagiwara.github.com/cll-ja/chapter8.html#ex4.1
> >> > guskant sunolili: 「zi'e は英語ではよく and と訳されるが、本当の論理的接続詞ではない。」
> >> > guskant sunolili: poi の場合は限定なので e の接続と似ている
> >> > guskant sunolili: 外延が等しい
> >> > 重城良国: lo gerku cu klama .ije lo gerku cu batci
> >> > guskant sunolili: le gerku poi ge blabi gi batci ...
> >> > guskant sunolili: zi'e の代わりに  ... gi ...を使えたら(da'i)
> >> > 重城良国: poi gi blabi gi batci
> >> > 重城良国: poi gi poi blabi gi poi batci
> >> > 重城良国: poi blabi gi batci
> >> >
> >> > --
> >> > Masato HAGIWARA
> >> > http://lilyx.net/
> >> >
> >> > --
> >> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> >> > Groups "lojban" group.
> >> > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
> >> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> >> > lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
> >> > For more options, visit this group at
> >> > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en.
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >> --
> >> http://singinst.org/ :  Our last, best hope for a fantastic future.
> >> .i ko na cpedu lo nu stidi vau loi jbopre .i danfu lu na go'i li'u .e
> >> lu go'i li'u .i ji'a go'i lu na'e go'i li'u .e lu go'i na'i li'u .e
> >> lu no'e go'i li'u .e lu to'e go'i li'u .e lu lo mamta be do cu sofybakni
> >> li'u
> >>
> >> --
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> >>
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-- 
http://singinst.org/ :  Our last, best hope for a fantastic future.
.i ko na cpedu lo nu stidi vau loi jbopre .i danfu lu na go'i li'u .e
lu go'i li'u .i ji'a go'i lu na'e go'i li'u .e lu go'i na'i li'u .e
lu no'e go'i li'u .e lu to'e go'i li'u .e lu lo mamta be do cu sofybakni li'u

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