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Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2012 20:17:49 -0500
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From: Masato Hagiwara <hagisan@gmail.com>
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.u'u it was my bad, the email, which is a minute of our biweekly
Japanese lojban study group, was intended to be sent to our Japanese
mailing list.

On Sun, Nov 11, 2012 at 5:37 PM, guskant <gusni.kantu@gmail.com> wrote:
> u'i the robotrans did a quite good job. Masato made a mistake about
> the destination of the message. It should have been sent to
> lojban-soudan@googlegroups.com .
>
> Btw, as shown here in the chat record, examples in CLL Chapter 16,
>
> 10.5)  roda zo'u mi prami da .ije naku zo'u do prami da
>        For each thing: I love it, and it is false that you love (the same) it.
> 10.6)  su'oda zo'u mi prami da
>             .ije naku zo'u do prami da
>        For at least one thing: I love that thing.
>             And it is false that: you love that (same) thing.
>        There is something that I love that you don’t.
>
> produce a parse error because of the raw {zo'u} after {ije}.
>
> If the logical connective in the examples were of forethought, that is,
>
> 10.5-1) roda zo'u ge mi prami da gi naku zo'u do prami da
> 10.6-1) su'oda zo'u ge mi prami da gi naku zo'u do prami da
>
> they would have been parsed with no error.
>
> In my opinion, the examples 10.5) and 10.6) are incorrect, and should
> be modified in the next version of CLL. However, someone thinks the
> forms of afterthought connective should be accepted, and the parser
> should be modified. How do you think?
>
>
> On Mon, Nov 12, 2012 at 4:52 AM, MorphemeAddict <lytlesw@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Here's the gmail robotrans:
>> coi ro do
>>
>> Cheers for good work CLL study group was 44th.
>> And I will receive the minutes of the study session, the guide of the next
>> schedule.
>>
>> CLL is the 45th study session we expected to be carried out in the following
>> content.
>>
>> (Japan Standard Time) 21:00 to 23:00 (Sunday): 11/25 Date
>>
>> Charge / Range: from Chapter 17, in charge of coral iocikun.
>>
>>
>> Minutes:
>>
>> guskant sunolili: 10.5) 10.6) results in an error. because it can not afford
>> the bare zo'u after ije.
>> When I try to form earlier canto
>> 10.3-1) roda zo'u mi. Enai do prami da
>> 10.4-1) roda zo'u mi prami da. Ijenai do prami da
>> na so corresponds to the external negation of predicate logic, ijenai if
>> representing the external negation of the rear,
>> 10.4-2) roda zo'u mi prami da. Ije do na prami da
>> Are equivalent.
>> If you connect with ge ... gi instead of ije, and could use a zo'u in the
>> rear,
>>
>> 10.4-3) roda zo'u ge mi prami da gi naku zo'u do prami da
>> Are equivalent.
>> In the form of external negation is obtained by omitting the canto
>> 10.4-4) mi prami roda. Ije do prami roda naku
>> Should be equal as well as meaning.
>>
>> guskant sunolili: da zo'u di broda da
>> guskant sunolili: = da di zo'u di broda da?
>> guskant sunolili: 11.4) = su'oda poi verba naku su'ode poi ckule zo'u ...
>> guskant sunolili: pe naku
>> https://groups.google.com/group/lojban/browse_thread/thread/16794aa41c579665/
>> guskant sunolili: naku zo'u ga ... gi = genai ... ginai ...
>> .. Da naku klama ge la paris gi la rom = da naku zo'u de goi ge: Good
>> country heavy Castle
>>
>> la paris. gi la rom. zo'u da klama de
>> .. Da naku de po'u ge la paris gi la rom zo'u da klama de: Good country
>> heavy Castle
>> .. Da de po'u ganai la paris ginai la rom zo'u da klama de: Good country
>> heavy Castle
>> guskant sunolili:. 12.10) = ga la paris na se klama la djan gi la rom.
>>
>> na se klama la djan.
>> guskant sunolili:.. 12.11) = la djan na klama ge la paris gi la rom.
>> ro bu'a zo'u segu bu'a gi anyway ...: guskant sunolili
>> .. La jan zo'u ce'u klama = la jan klama: Good country heavy Castle
>> . Da goi la jan zo'u da klama: Good country castle double application apply
>> =: Good country - Castle (coming> x \ x) Heavy Jean Country: Castle double
>> good
>> .. La jan la paris zo'u ce'u klama ce'u: Good country heavy Castle
>> .. La paris la jan zo'u ce'u xi re klama ce'u xi pa: Good country heavy
>> Castle
>> Lu'i ci da poi prenu cu se ralju pa da: Good country heavy Castle
>> ! Le gerku poi blabi zi'e poi batci le nanmu cu klama = le gerku: Good
>> country heavy Castle
>> poi blabi cu klama. ije le gerku poi batci le nanmu cu klama
>>
>> guskant sunolili: http://mhagiwara.github.com/cll-ja/chapter8.html # ex4.1
>> guskant sunolili: "zi'e in English and will be translated as well, it's not
>> a true logical conjunction."
>> I have a similar connection so limited in the case of e poi: guskant
>> sunolili
>> . lo gerku cu klama ije lo gerku cu batci: Good country castle double
>> extension is equal to: guskant sunolili
>>
>> guskant sunolili: le gerku poi ge blabi gi batci ...
>> guskant sunolili: ... gi ... I could use instead of zi'e (da'i)
>> Poi gi blabi gi batci: Good country heavy Castle
>> Poi gi poi blabi gi poi batci: Good country heavy Castle
>> Poi blabi gi batci: Good country heavy Castle
>>
>> -
>> Masato HAGIWARA
>> http://lilyx.net/
>>
>>
>> stevo
>>
>>
>> 2012/11/11 Robin Lee Powell <rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org>
>>>
>>> Looks pretty clearly to not be spam; can anyone read it?
>>>
>>> -Robin
>>>
>>> On Sun, Nov 11, 2012 at 09:53:51AM -0500, Masato Hagiwara wrote:
>>> > coi ro do
>>> >
>>> > 第44回 CLL 勉強会おつかれさまでした。
>>> > 勉強会の議事録と、次回日程のご案内を差し上げます。
>>> >
>>> > 第45回CLL 勉強会は下記内容での実施を予定しております。
>>> >
>>> > 日時：11/25(日) 21:00-23:00 (日本時間)
>>> >
>>> > 範囲/担当：第17章から、iocikun. さんご担当
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > 議事録：
>>> >
>>> > guskant sunolili: 10.5) 10.6) はエラーになる。 ije の後にむき出しの zo'u を置けないため。
>>> > 先に冠頭形にしてみると
>>> > 10.3-1) roda zo'u mi .enai do prami da
>>> > 10.4-1) roda zo'u mi prami da .ijenai do prami da
>>> > na は述語論理の外部否定に相当するので、 ijenai が後部の外部否定を表すならば、
>>> > 10.4-2) roda zo'u mi prami da .ije do na prami da
>>> > も同じ意味になる。
>>> > ijeの代わりに ge ... gi で接続すれば、後部に zo'uが使えて、
>>> > 10.4-3) roda zo'u ge mi prami da gi naku zo'u do prami da
>>> > も同じ意味になる。
>>> > 冠頭を省いた外部否定の形では
>>> > 10.4-4) mi prami roda .ije do prami roda naku
>>> > としても意味は等しいはず。
>>> > guskant sunolili: da zo'u di broda da
>>> > guskant sunolili: = da di zo'u di broda da ?
>>> > guskant sunolili: 11.4) = su'oda poi verba naku su'ode poi ckule zo'u
>>> > ...
>>> > guskant sunolili: pe naku
>>> >
>>> > https://groups.google.com/group/lojban/browse_thread/thread/16794aa41c579665/
>>> > guskant sunolili: naku zo'u ga ... gi = genai ... ginai ...
>>> > 重城良国: da naku klama ge la paris. gi la rom. = da naku zo'u de goi ge
>>> > la paris. gi la rom. zo'u da klama de
>>> > 重城良国: da naku de po'u ge la paris. gi la rom. zo'u da klama de
>>> > 重城良国: da de po'u ganai la paris. ginai la rom. zo'u da klama de
>>> > guskant sunolili: 12.10) = ga la paris. na se klama la djan gi la rom.
>>> > na se klama la djan.
>>> > guskant sunolili: 12.11) = la djan. na klama ge la paris. gi la rom.
>>> > guskant sunolili: なにしろ ro bu'a zo'u segu bu'a gi ...
>>> > 重城良国: la jan. zo'u ce'u klama = la jan. klama
>>> > 重城良国: (\x -> x 来る) ジャン
>>> > 重城良国: apply = 適用
>>> > 重城良国: da goi la jan. zo'u da klama
>>> > 重城良国: la jan. la paris. zo'u ce'u klama ce'u
>>> > 重城良国: la paris. la jan. zo'u ce'u xi re klama ce'u xi pa
>>> > 重城良国: lu'i ci da poi prenu cu se ralju pa da
>>> > 重城良国: le gerku poi blabi zi'e poi batci le nanmu cu klama != le gerku
>>> > poi blabi cu klama .ije le gerku poi batci le nanmu cu klama
>>> > guskant sunolili: http://mhagiwara.github.com/cll-ja/chapter8.html#ex4.1
>>> > guskant sunolili: 「zi'e は英語ではよく and と訳されるが、本当の論理的接続詞ではない。」
>>> > guskant sunolili: poi の場合は限定なので e の接続と似ている
>>> > guskant sunolili: 外延が等しい
>>> > 重城良国: lo gerku cu klama .ije lo gerku cu batci
>>> > guskant sunolili: le gerku poi ge blabi gi batci ...
>>> > guskant sunolili: zi'e の代わりに  ... gi ...を使えたら(da'i)
>>> > 重城良国: poi gi blabi gi batci
>>> > 重城良国: poi gi poi blabi gi poi batci
>>> > 重城良国: poi blabi gi batci
>>> >
>>> > --
>>> > Masato HAGIWARA
>>> > http://lilyx.net/
>>> >
>>> > --
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>>> >
>>> >
>>>
>>> --
>>> http://singinst.org/ :  Our last, best hope for a fantastic future.
>>> .i ko na cpedu lo nu stidi vau loi jbopre .i danfu lu na go'i li'u .e
>>> lu go'i li'u .i ji'a go'i lu na'e go'i li'u .e lu go'i na'i li'u .e
>>> lu no'e go'i li'u .e lu to'e go'i li'u .e lu lo mamta be do cu sofybakni
>>> li'u
>>>
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>>
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-- 
Masato HAGIWARA
http://lilyx.net/

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