Received: from mail-yh0-f61.google.com ([209.85.213.61]:44675) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1TYszH-0000HN-Ji; Wed, 14 Nov 2012 22:31:58 -0800 Received: by mail-yh0-f61.google.com with SMTP id o21sf944345yho.16 for ; Wed, 14 Nov 2012 22:31:37 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=20120806; h=x-beenthere:date:from:to:message-id:in-reply-to:references:subject :mime-version:x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=9jwLV6gm2Pca0f9F80FxzmQiqn33lPNq/3s9Vs1cdLM=; b=OQPG77SY8/LqSY18syxEqR/oli+GcPBBYB8KZhBy4BUfZEzG/ZoTCzW5dwmje6H0RG favIX1Pu4GX38KJyFQpADl5FOjkeJyeI3snR3SFH16qFYZ7QTLYvNIjAs/H1Hna1T6vn KTeaeH+K767kof8mQuhI8goGhYRhxpGMIB4gUmnsd+lZ2Ov8geZgKsMjq9zn3yhtvKMd LQYD7NyyfN+udjTIJ3h0vNkA3OYmxiMNs8iu6vCaNC/oZa3GWEbanTLOwvdBVSYI0dj4 eD/CrpEj54Lb/uzcA973usPOzRGVKli/PAEXGoBIpWEQ5SL8UMMqBnBfGFUY1br0KYEu 7rFQ== Received: by 10.49.127.113 with SMTP id nf17mr99332qeb.29.1352961096828; Wed, 14 Nov 2012 22:31:36 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.49.84.228 with SMTP id c4ls157716qez.78.gmail; Wed, 14 Nov 2012 22:31:35 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.49.116.179 with SMTP id jx19mr111299qeb.37.1352961095249; Wed, 14 Nov 2012 22:31:35 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2012 22:31:34 -0800 (PST) From: la gleki To: lojban@googlegroups.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <20121114170515.GO22972@sunflowerriver.org> References:

<6cb197db-5690-48fb-8a88-3e633bb6f94b@googlegroups.com> <285a3908-97fd-4231-8767-479dd0779da8@googlegroups.com> <20121113171712.GG22972@sunflowerriver.org> <699d8b9d-2f04-4a0a-b2cf-a9f498ac19fd@googlegroups.com> <20121113194725.GL22972@sunflowerriver.org> <20121114170515.GO22972@sunflowerriver.org> Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: A new Lojbanic wiki (LMW). On the threshold of the 25th anniversary of Lojban MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Original-Sender: gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_915_7156724.1352961094463" X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam_score: 0.0 X-Spam_score_int: 0 X-Spam_bar: / ------=_Part_915_7156724.1352961094463 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 On Wednesday, November 14, 2012 9:04:56 PM UTC+4, .alyn.post. wrote: > > Let me see if I understand: > > 1) you create a new platform and obsolete the work I've done. > 2) you make it my problem that my data isn't available. > > I don't have a dump of Tikiwiki and I don't know what to do with it so that I can transfer all it's contents to Mediawiki. the only thing i found on the internet was a company that offered such migration for *xo'e rupnu*. If you know how to do that please let me know. I'd be nice if you show me on a separate wiki the result of your work. Did I miss anything? > > On Wed, Nov 14, 2012 at 06:02:03AM -0800, la gleki wrote: > > Lojbananas, I've switched off my creative mind recently so my future > work > > on LMW will be exclusively described as "add and add and add... and > > stupidly add more content". > > So my questions. > > 1. If you want ALL the pages from the old wiki migrated please > contact > > camgusmis or other people that have access to TikiWiki yourself to > get a > > dump of all pages. If you can show that your method of importing it > back > > to your own distribution of mediawiki works then of course together > with > > me we'll import all the pages to LMW. > > 1a. If you (tsani + me + probably some other jbopre) don't like pages > for > > geeks being present there why not move them into a separate namespace > or > > just prefix them with "Pages for developers/" or similar string? > > 2. What plugins do you currently need? > > SemanticMW.... got it. > > anything else? > > > > On Tuesday, November 13, 2012 11:47:05 PM UTC+4, .alyn.post. wrote: > > > > I like the suggestion of a {{cleanup}} template. I've been working > > on general workflow templates over at OpenCog: > > > > [1]http://wiki.opencog.org/w/Curation > > > > And they are similar to this idea. You can mark a page as a > > {{stub}}, mark it as work in progress ({{WIP}})* write it until > > it's a {{proposal}}, and then {{withdraw}} it if it's a bad idea > > or tag it with a {{version}} if it becomes a feature. Later work > > may cause it to be {{obsolete}} and if you don't keep it in sync > > it might get {{out of date}}. > > > > These templates also take care to register the pages in the > > appropriate namespaces, so a curator can see which pages are in > > which categories. I like workflow processes like this because any > > effort has a 'long tail' of incomplete, partial, bad, and promising > > ideas that don't quite fit into the existing structure of the wiki. > > > > mi'e .alyn. > > > > * = adding that is on my list, it doesn't exist yet. > > > > On Tue, Nov 13, 2012 at 11:29:43AM -0800, vruxir wrote: > > > I'm of the opinion that it would benefit a future Wiki if it > has > > imported > > > ALL the contents from the TWiki. If that can be done > automatically, > > then > > > hopefully there's also a way to automatically place a > "Cleanup" box > > at the > > > top of each imported article, saying something to the effect > of: > > > "This article was imported from the old [2]lojban.org Tiki > Wiki and > > may not > > > meet the content and style guidelines of this Wiki. Please see > our > > > _content and style guidelines_ and clean up this article. If > you > > feel that > > > the article is named inappropriately, the article can be moved > to a > > new > > > name. Do not remove this tag until the article is up to > standards." > > > Then you'll want to have some content and style guidelines, > > probably > > > inspired by Wikipedia or other successful Wikis. > > > (When you move an article to a new name, the old name becomes > a > > redirect; > > > if you replace the old name with a new article, you can insert > tags > > at the > > > top of the article with suggestions to visit the moved > article. > > See, for > > > example, the top of the article > > [1][3]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defamation > > > ) > > > If there is a debate about what a word really MEANS, then I > would > > think > > > the article about that word needs to report the differing > > viewpoints > > > (including CLL's viewpoint) and what level of support the > > viewpoints > > > have. Then the actual continuing debate over the meaning of > the > > word could > > > go in the Discussion tab, OR if it's possible to create > another tab > > with a > > > more appropriate name (e.g. "Grammar Debate"), do that and > leave > > the > > > Discussion tab for talking about the quality of the article > itself. > > > By importing all the TWiki content to the new Wiki (and > marking > > them all > > > for "cleanup"), you can safely redirect people from the TWiki > to > > the new > > > Wiki if/when it has been demonstrated that the new Wiki is > > superior, and > > > you don't have to worry about losing important discussions. > > > mu'o mi'e vruxir > > > On Tuesday, November 13, 2012 12:16:51 PM UTC-5, .alyn.post. > wrote: > > > > > > On Tue, Nov 13, 2012 at 04:21:14AM -0800, la gleki wrote: > > > > * We're making a fresh start, so why not keep it > clean? > > > > > > To be contrary a moment, > > > > > > I've put a lot of work in writing and organizing TWiki > pages. > > I'm > > > happy to have them migrated to mediawiki, but I'm > more-or-less > > being > > > told that the work I've done on TWiki isn't valuable ("fresh > > start"). > > > Any work I would do on the new wiki would need to > access/refer > > to/ > > > modify the pages I have worked on than are in TWiki. > > > > > > I'd love to have them imported to Mediawiki, but as things > stand > > I feel > > > like work I've put into the wiki is more-or-less being > deleted > > (you can > > > call it archiving if you want) and I'm wondering what the > heck I > > would > > > be expected to do with the new wiki when all the content I > want > > to work > > > on is in the old wiki. > > > > > > mi'e .alyn. > > > -- > > > .i ma'a lo bradi cu penmi gi'e du > > > > > > -- > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the > Google > > Groups > > > "lojban" group. > > > To view this discussion on the web visit > > > [2][4]https://groups.google.com/d/msg/lojban/-/01evXYCxTw8J. > > > To post to this group, send email to [5] > loj...@googlegroups.com. > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > > [6]lojban+un...@googlegroups.com. > > > For more options, visit this group at > > > [7]http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. > > > > > > References > > > > > > Visible links > > > 1. [8]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defamation > > > 2. [9]https://groups.google.com/d/msg/lojban/-/01evXYCxTw8J > > > > -- > > .i ma'a lo bradi cu penmi gi'e du > > > > -- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups > > "lojban" group. > > To view this discussion on the web visit > > [10]https://groups.google.com/d/msg/lojban/-/WCfLQSvTsUQJ. > > To post to this group, send email to loj...@googlegroups.com. > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > lojban+un...@googlegroups.com . > > For more options, visit this group at > > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. > > > > References > > > > Visible links > > 1. http://wiki.opencog.org/w/Curation > > 2. http://lojban.org/ > > 3. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defamation > > 4. https://groups.google.com/d/msg/lojban/-/01evXYCxTw8J > > 5. javascript: > > 6. javascript: > > 7. http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en > > 8. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defamation > > 9. https://groups.google.com/d/msg/lojban/-/01evXYCxTw8J > > 10. https://groups.google.com/d/msg/lojban/-/WCfLQSvTsUQJ > > -- > .i ma'a lo bradi cu penmi gi'e du > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/lojban/-/m0rSgeQz2aoJ. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. ------=_Part_915_7156724.1352961094463 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

On Wednesday, November 14, 2012 9:04:56 PM UTC+4, .alyn.post. wrote= :

Let me see if I understand:

1) you create a new platform and obsolete the work I've done.
2) you make it my problem that my data isn't available.

I don't have a dump of Tikiwiki and I = don't know what to do with it so that I can transfer all it's contents to M= ediawiki.

the only thing i found on the internet was a company &n= bsp;that offered such migration for xo'e rupnu.

If you kno= w how to do that please let me know. I'd be nice if you show me on a separa= te wiki the result of your work.

Did I miss anything?

On Wed, Nov 14, 2012 at 06:02:03AM -0800, la gleki wrote:
> Lojbananas, I've switched off my creative mind recent= ly so my future work
> on LMW will be exclusively described as "add and add = and add... and
> stupidly add more content".
> So my questions.
> 1. If you want ALL the pages from the old wiki migrat= ed please contact
> camgusmis or other people that have access to TikiWik= i yourself to get a
> dump of all pages. If you can show that your method o= f importing it back
> to your own distribution of mediawiki works then of c= ourse together with
> me we'll import all the pages to LMW.
> 1a. If you (tsani + me + probably some other jbopre) = don't like pages for
> geeks being present there why not move them into a se= parate namespace or
> just prefix them with "Pages for developers/" or simi= lar string?
> 2. What plugins do you currently need?
> SemanticMW.... got it.
> anything else?
>=20
> On Tuesday, November 13, 2012 11:47:05 PM UTC+4, .aly= n.post. wrote:
>=20
> I like the suggestion of a {{cleanup}} templat= e. I've been working
> on general workflow templates over at OpenCog:
>=20
> [1]http://wiki.opencog.org/w/Curation
>=20
> And they are similar to this idea. You c= an mark a page as a
> {{stub}}, mark it as work in progress ({{WIP}}= )* write it until
> it's a {{proposal}}, and then {{withdraw}} it = if it's a bad idea
> or tag it with a {{version}} if it becomes a f= eature. Later work
> may cause it to be {{obsolete}} and if you don= 't keep it in sync
> it might get {{out of date}}.
>=20
> These templates also take care to register the= pages in the
> appropriate namespaces, so a curator can see w= hich pages are in
> which categories. I like workflow proces= ses like this because any
> effort has a 'long tail' of incomplete, partia= l, bad, and promising
> ideas that don't quite fit into the existing s= tructure of the wiki.
>=20
> mi'e .alyn.
>=20
> * =3D adding that is on my list, it doesn't ex= ist yet.
>=20
> On Tue, Nov 13, 2012 at 11:29:43AM -0800, vrux= ir wrote:
> > I'm of the opinion that it w= ould benefit a future Wiki if it has
> imported
> > ALL the contents from the TW= iki. If that can be done automatically,
> then
> > hopefully there's also a way= to automatically place a "Cleanup" box
> at the
> > top of each imported article= , saying something to the effect of:
> > "This article was imported f= rom the old [2]lojban.org Tiki Wiki and
> may not
> > meet the content and style g= uidelines of this Wiki. Please see our
> > _content and style guideline= s_ and clean up this article. If you
> feel that
> > the article is named inappro= priately, the article can be moved to a
> new
> > name. Do not remove this tag= until the article is up to standards."
> > Then you'll want to have som= e content and style guidelines,
> probably
> > inspired by Wikipedia or oth= er successful Wikis.
> > (When you move an article to= a new name, the old name becomes a
> redirect;
> > if you replace the old name = with a new article, you can insert tags
> at the
> > top of the article with sugg= estions to visit the moved article.
> See, for
> > example, the top of the arti= cle
> [1][3]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defamation<= /a>
> > )
> > If there is a debate about w= hat a word really MEANS, then I would
> think
> > the article about that word = needs to report the differing
> viewpoints
> > (including CLL's viewpoint) = and what level of support the
> viewpoints
> > have. Then the actual contin= uing debate over the meaning of the
> word could
> > go in the Discussion tab, OR= if it's possible to create another tab
> with a
> > more appropriate name (e.g. = "Grammar Debate"), do that and leave
> the
> > Discussion tab for talking a= bout the quality of the article itself.
> > By importing all the TWiki c= ontent to the new Wiki (and marking
> them all
> > for "cleanup"), you can safe= ly redirect people from the TWiki to
> the new
> > Wiki if/when it has been dem= onstrated that the new Wiki is
> superior, and
> > you don't have to worry abou= t losing important discussions.
> > mu'o mi'e vruxir
> > On Tuesday, November 13, 201= 2 12:16:51 PM UTC-5, .alyn.post. wrote:
> >
> > On Tue, Nov 13, 2012 = at 04:21:14AM -0800, la gleki wrote:
> > > &n= bsp; * We're making a fresh start, so why not keep it clean?
> >
> > To be contrary a mome= nt,
> >
> > I've put a lot of wor= k in writing and organizing TWiki pages.
> I'm
> > happy to have them mi= grated to mediawiki, but I'm more-or-less
> being
> > told that the work I'= ve done on TWiki isn't valuable ("fresh
> start").
> > Any work I would do o= n the new wiki would need to access/refer
> to/
> > modify the pages I ha= ve worked on than are in TWiki.
> >
> > I'd love to have them= imported to Mediawiki, but as things stand
> I feel
> > like work I've put in= to the wiki is more-or-less being deleted
> (you can
> > call it archiving if = you want) and I'm wondering what the heck I
> would
> > be expected to do wit= h the new wiki when all the content I want
> to work
> > on is in the old wiki= .
> >
> > mi'e .alyn.
> > --
> > .i ma'a lo bradi cu p= enmi gi'e du
> >
> > --
> > You received this message be= cause you are subscribed to the Google
> Groups
> > "lojban" group.
> > To view this discussion on t= he web visit
> > [2][4]https://group= s.google.com/d/msg/lojban/-/01evXYCxTw8J.
> > To post to this group, send = email to [5]loj...@googlegroups.com.
> > To unsubscribe from this gro= up, send email to
> > [6]lojban+un...@googlegro= ups.com.
> > For more options, visit this= group at
> > [7]http://groups.google.com= /group/lojban?hl=3Den.
> >
> > References
> >
> > Visible links
> > 1. [8]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defamation
> > 2. [9]https://group= s.google.com/d/msg/lojban/-/01evXYCxTw8J
>=20
> --
> .i ma'a lo bradi cu penmi gi'e du
>=20
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed = to the Google Groups
> "lojban" group.
> To view this discussion on the web visit
> [10]https://groups.google.com/d/msg/loj= ban/-/WCfLQSvTsUQJ.
> To post to this group, send email to loj...@goo= glegroups.com.
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> lojban+un...@googlegroups.com.
> For more options, visit this group at
> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den= .
>=20
> References
>=20
> Visible links
> 1. http://wiki.opencog.org/w/Curation
> 2. h= ttp://lojban.org/
> 3. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defamation
> 4. https://groups.google.com/d/msg/lojb= an/-/01evXYCxTw8J
> 5. javascript:
> 6. javascript:
> 7. http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3De= n
> 8. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defamation
> 9. https://groups.google.com/d/msg/lojb= an/-/01evXYCxTw8J
> 10. https://groups.google.com/d/msg/lojban/-/= WCfLQSvTsUQJ

--=20
.i ma'a lo bradi cu penmi gi'e du

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/lojban/-/m0= rSgeQz2aoJ.
=20 To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den.
------=_Part_915_7156724.1352961094463--