ht= tps://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=3D0AqPDUjCrM_cfdDI5NzBIMzhCRHZJWG= F2Tzl4R245N3c#gid=3D2

It lists all the pages (2,35= 7 of them) at the time of the creation of the spreadsheet, which was one or= two months ago. So it lacks those 6 pages that were created since then.

Pages in a language other than English or Lojban are= categorized as "wiki translation."

mu'o

On= Friday, November 16, 2012 6:40:04 AM UTC+9, vruxir wrote:

Here's what I've learned about the current Tiki= Wiki: it has 2,363 articles. You can see a full list of them here: h= ttp://www.lojban.org/tiki/tiki-listpages.php

Wh= at I can't seem to do is get a full "dump" (export) of the articles. It mig= ht be that the feature isn't turned on by the administrator. Instructions f= or doing so are here: http://doc.tiki.org/Wiki+Config#Dumps

There is a python script (http://www.mediawiki= .org/wiki/Manual:TikiWiki_Conversion) which converts TikiWiki= dumps to MediaWiki XML files. It requires the dumped .tar file; also requi= res MySQL access to the Tiki server to "create an XML dump of the metadata = for the Tiki images". The instructions for doing so are on the page linked = in this paragraph.

Now that I've fooled with the M= ediaWiki translate feature a little bit, I see that it is kind of finicky, = and it defaults to English, and that, for example, "ralju_ckupau/en" means = the same thing as "ralju_ckupau" (except that the article title does not de= pend exclusively on the URL in the "/en" version).

One (possible) problem with the translation tool is that it seems like you= have to define the structure of the page in English (or the default langua= ge) before you can create a translation. You can divide the page into a num= ber of "chunks" ("messages") to be translated, or you can probably make the= whole page be a single "chunk". How many "chunks" you define determines ho= w well you can monitor the quality of translations.

A nastier problem is that the Tiki Wiki pages are in many languages; some= are all English, others all Lojban, others (such as discussion pages and s= elf-introduction pages) may be in more than one language. The primary langu= age of a Tiki article is optionally marked, but usually it is not marked. S= o, when importing all those Tiki articles into a MediaWiki framework, they = might all have to be temporarily dumped into the default language namespace= , then marked with a tag saying "This article was uploaded from the old Tik= i Wiki and is marked as being (Lojban/English/Whatever the default is). If = the language of this article is different, please move it to the appropriat= e namespace."

On Thursday, November 15, 2012 3:19:58 P= M UTC-5, entot wrote:

I like the ide= a of adding a {{cleanup}} template too.
Now I'm leaning towards the opt= ion of importing all pages.

On Wednesday, November= 14, 2012 3:03:00 AM UTC+9, .alyn.post. wrote:
I'm 100% onb= oard with improving the user experience of our wiki: I
find the TW= iki frustrating in that regard too. I'm not certain what
too= ls mediawiki gives us to mitigate this problem: it's a function
of= the content rather than the platform [snip]

I argue that having a familiar-looking interface itself is an
i= mprovement to the user experience. Also a better editing
exp= erience, which I think MediaWiki offers over TWiki,
facilita= tes better content organization.

mu'o
On Wednesday, November 14, 2012 4:47:05 AM UTC+9, .alyn.post. wrote:I like the suggestion of a {{cleanup}} t= emplate. I've been working
on general workflow templates over at OpenCog:

http://wiki.opencog.org/w/Curation

And they are similar to this idea. You can mark a page as a
{{stub}}, mark it as work in progress ({{WIP}})* write it until
it's a {{proposal}}, and then {{withdraw}} it if it's a bad idea
or tag it with a {{version}} if it becomes a feature. Later work
may cause it to be {{obsolete}} and if you don't keep it in sync
it might get {{out of date}}.

These templates also take care to register the pages in the
appropriate namespaces, so a curator can see which pages are in
which categories. I like workflow processes like this because any
effort has a 'long tail' of incomplete, partial, bad, and promising
ideas that don't quite fit into the existing structure of the wiki.

mi'e .alyn.

* =3D adding that is on my list, it doesn't exist yet.

On Tue, Nov 13, 2012 at 11:29:43AM -0800, vruxir wrote:
> I'm of the opinion that it would benefit a future Wik= i if it has imported
> ALL the contents from the TWiki. If that can be done = automatically, then
> hopefully there's also a way to automatically place a= "Cleanup" box at the
> top of each imported article, saying something to the= effect of:
> "This article was imported from the old lojban.org Tiki Wiki and may not
> meet the content and style guidelines of this Wiki. P= lease see our
> _content and style guidelines_ and clean up this arti= cle. If you feel that
> the article is named inappropriately, the article can= be moved to a new
> name. Do not remove this tag until the article is up = to standards."
> Then you'll want to have some content and style guide= lines, probably
> inspired by Wikipedia or other successful Wikis.
> (When you move an article to a new name, the old name= becomes a redirect;
> if you replace the old name with a new article, you c= an insert tags at the
> top of the article with suggestions to visit the move= d article. See, for
> example, the top of the article [1]http://en.wikipedia.org= /wiki/Defamation
> )
> If there is a debate about what a word really MEANS, = then I would think
> the article about that word needs to report the diffe= ring viewpoints
> (including CLL's viewpoint) and what level of support= the viewpoints
> have. Then the actual continuing debate over the mean= ing of the word could
> go in the Discussion tab, OR if it's possible to crea= te another tab with a
> more appropriate name (e.g. "Grammar Debate"), do tha= t and leave the
> Discussion tab for talking about the quality of the a= rticle itself.
> By importing all the TWiki content to the new Wiki (a= nd marking them all
> for "cleanup"), you can safely redirect people from t= he TWiki to the new
> Wiki if/when it has been demonstrated that the new Wi= ki is superior, and
> you don't have to worry about losing important discus= sions.
> mu'o mi'e vruxir
> On Tuesday, November 13, 2012 12:16:51 PM UTC-5, .aly= n.post. wrote:
>=20
> On Tue, Nov 13, 2012 at 04:21:14AM -0800, la g= leki wrote:
> > * We're making= a fresh start, so why not keep it clean?
>=20
> To be contrary a moment,
>=20
> I've put a lot of work in writing and organizi= ng TWiki pages. I'm
> happy to have them migrated to mediawiki, but = I'm more-or-less being
> told that the work I've done on TWiki isn't va= luable ("fresh start").
> Any work I would do on the new wiki would need= to access/refer to/
> modify the pages I have worked on than are in = TWiki.
>=20
> I'd love to have them imported to Mediawiki, b= ut as things stand I feel
> like work I've put into the wiki is more-or-le= ss being deleted (you can
> call it archiving if you want) and I'm wonderi= ng what the heck I would
> be expected to do with the new wiki when all t= he content I want to work
> on is in the old wiki.
>=20
> mi'e .alyn.
> --
> .i ma'a lo bradi cu penmi gi'e du
>=20
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed = to the Google Groups
> "lojban" group.
> To view this discussion on the web visit
> [2]https://groups.google.com/d/msg/lojb= an/-/01evXYCxTw8J.
> To post to this group, send email to loj...@google= groups.com.
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> lojban+un...@googlegroups.com.
> For more options, visit this group at
> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den= .
>=20
> References
>=20
> Visible links
> 1. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defamation
> 2. https://groups.google.com/d/msg/lojb= an/-/01evXYCxTw8J

--=20
.i ma'a lo bradi cu penmi gi'e du