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Subject: Re: [lojban] CLL 1.1/ CLL 2.0. What is your opinion in the current situation?
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.i la .aionys. cu cusku di'e
> On Sun, Nov 18, 2012 at 12:30 PM, selpa'i <seladwa@gmx.de
> <mailto:seladwa@gmx.de>> wrote:
>
>     Am 18.11.2012 19:48, schrieb Robin Lee Powell:
>
>         There are probably 20 people on this list with most or all of the
>         requisite skills.  No idea which if them would take money for it;
>         I've offered, and gotten no reply.
>
>
>     Is anyone currently working on it?
>
>
> No. the last commit was on Aug 12. I haven't personally been working on
> it, with the excuse that I've got school stuff right now.
>
>     I can understand gleki's frustration, and I can also understand
>     yours. I don't really understand how so many people just prefer to
>     watch passively what happens. The BPFK has done a lot of great work
>     already, it's a shame it completely ran out of steam.
>
>
> I don't think the BPFK has run out of steam per se. I'll note that the
> BPFK mailing list is apparently dead, and it's members as a whole don't
> do much, but the /job/ of the BPFK is still getting done, by those of us
> that care about whatever issue we're bringing up to discuss. Problems
> are being found, opinions are being floated, decisions are being made.

Actually, decisions aren't really being made. Most discussions just end=20
in dead silence, nothing ever gets announced as an official solution,=20
and almost nothing gets a note on the tiki.

> Speaking of, I think that anyone who wants to get issues solved and
> changes made, should apply to join the BPFK list and start talking on
> it. The entire reason for the existence of that list is to discuss
> issues and make decisions.

Not sure if that's (still) true. We could give it a try, of course.

> If I were to guess, I'd say most people are to busy learning and using
> Lojban to spend any time on the decision making, issue discussion bits.

People are busy *using* Lojban? Who? Where? It is true that many are=20
struggling with learning it.

>     We get lots of newbies on IRC and each one of them reminds us of the
>     fact that we don't have a single up-do-date, official description of
>     our language. We have to tell each time that they can learn from the
>     CLL or Lojban for Beginners, but that there are several outdated
>     things in those materials. Is it not in everyone's interest that
>     people new to the language get welcomed by proper learning materials?
>
>
> Of course it is. That's why it's so important that the CLL1.1 is
> finished. The big thing about CLL1.1 is that one of its design
> parameters is making it easier to maintain and update than the original
> CLL, so that keeping it up to date with any changes to the language is
> simple and relatively painless. The other major point is that it be easy
> to deliver in a variety of formats, so that the same source can be used
> to automagically generate a web site, pdf, print book, etc. etc.

Yes, very useful and desirable. I again welcome anyone who is willing to=20
help to speak up and accept our money.

>
>     What do people think about this now?
>
>
> I'm still in total support of this. It's very much like the U.S.A.
> system of government in some respects, where those of us who give a crap
> about one issue or another discuss it, debate it, argue about it, and so
> on until we've figured out what we think is the best solution for it,
> and then Robin decides whether or not to veto our solution. More often
> than not he agrees, and to the best of my knowledge he never exercises
> his decision-making power without being fully informed.

I agree. However I think it's too much to ask of one person. And now he=20
is a father and understandably very very short on time and energy. Maybe=20
new circumstances require new methods.

> I don't think a wiki is the appropriate format for the CLL. For one
> thing, changes should only be made to the CLL when they have officially
> been decided on, which means only select few people should have write
> access, not everyone and their dog.

Of course not, but it's not likely that "anyone's dog" will make use of=20
write access. We don't usually have many volunteers for anything. I=20
expect that only those that really want to help would help.

> For another, a wiki isn't easily
> converted into other delivery modes, AFAIK, and the deisre is for the
> CLL to be available as /at least/ a web site, a pdf, and a print book,
> which is why CLL1.1 is being encoded in LaTeX and hosted in a git
> repository: being in LaTeX makes it easy to print the same material in a
> large variety of formats, including but not limited to the ones I've
> mentioned, and being in a git repo makes it very easy to submit changes
> to the CLL on an as needed basis.

Yes, but the point of the wiki would be to. One could also use google=20
docs instead. Just something that allows multiple people to put together=20
a written description in one place for the future CLL. Once the text(s)=20
are good and complete, they would be transferred to the docbook, which=20
maybe by then is ready for it. It's just an idea.

mu'o mi'e la selpa'i


--=20
pilno zo le xu .i lo dei bangu cu se cmene zo lojbo .e nai zo lejbo

do=E1=BB=8B m=C3=A8lbi mlen=C3=AC'u
    .i do c=C3=A0tlu ki'u
ma fe la x=C3=A0mpre =C5=ADu
    .i do t=C3=ACnsa c=C3=A0rmi
gi'e s=C3=ACrji se t=C3=A0rmi
    .i ta=E1=BB=8B bo pu c=C3=ACtka lo gr=C3=A0na ku


.


.

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