Received: from mail-pb0-f61.google.com ([209.85.160.61]:65496) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1TaYUm-0001P7-PI; Mon, 19 Nov 2012 13:03:14 -0800 Received: by mail-pb0-f61.google.com with SMTP id wz12sf4079915pbc.16 for ; Mon, 19 Nov 2012 13:03:02 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=20120806; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from :date:message-id:subject:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=9WhkSR5hLvqTTAWJ+i5VD2oA4KennJpMJVN9NsTjl7Y=; b=ySl5+Ga5jM3Ya6lpKOfTxQaXZOtb9TOHBVrdxAHpvEMRnAJCFuOLM9kZze9RRkFSeo kU+xm3IZD52XBxw4R6O+GK6ksN518iD+j5qZ0M5rEoP4hKqeYs5+7NroYyrIBCPitWto 97yROQEG4e/PG3T05C5EMrhK18YLDc4qrQYtlC47ZQWIUnyBTXOR6RLwvZaERnQn3kqr Bs4jwiV1MDiQxyfHpItQFlT+a5th7SP6BGobamDYu+TODZ1XmJQ8iRd9+X/A4vYoBc1Y WAzB2rQDtAU/U08zNOrG1dWOXS6lUznjobsKjlBmL9E+8wD8ARGJMSfbuNn3Q3xrXCwk hrJA== Received: by 10.50.5.174 with SMTP id t14mr3067748igt.11.1353358982282; Mon, 19 Nov 2012 13:03:02 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.50.45.133 with SMTP id n5ls3257220igm.27.gmail; Mon, 19 Nov 2012 13:03:00 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.42.89.193 with SMTP id h1mr10941095icm.31.1353358980786; Mon, 19 Nov 2012 13:03:00 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.42.89.193 with SMTP id h1mr10941091icm.31.1353358980765; Mon, 19 Nov 2012 13:03:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-oa0-f48.google.com (mail-oa0-f48.google.com [209.85.219.48]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id us14si1361909igb.3.2012.11.19.13.03.00 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Mon, 19 Nov 2012 13:03:00 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of lukeabergen@gmail.com designates 209.85.219.48 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.219.48; Received: by mail-oa0-f48.google.com with SMTP id h2so4558851oag.7 for ; Mon, 19 Nov 2012 13:03:00 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.182.43.104 with SMTP id v8mr8743040obl.98.1353358980595; Mon, 19 Nov 2012 13:03:00 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.60.61.103 with HTTP; Mon, 19 Nov 2012 13:02:39 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <20121119204323.GH27366@sunflowerriver.org> References: <20121118184842.GH28469@stodi.digitalkingdom.org> <50A9375D.5060404@gmx.de> <50AA2215.3030502@gmx.de> <20121119185210.GM28469@stodi.digitalkingdom.org> <50AA9461.4020707@gmail.com> <20121119202652.GB3564@stodi.digitalkingdom.org> <50AA9729.1090400@gmail.com> <20121119203957.GC3564@stodi.digitalkingdom.org> <20121119204323.GH27366@sunflowerriver.org> From: Luke Bergen Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2012 16:02:39 -0500 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Please answer a book design opinion question (was Re: [lojban] CLL 1.1/ CLL 2.0. What is your opinion in the current situation?) To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: lukeabergen@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of lukeabergen@gmail.com designates 209.85.219.48 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=lukeabergen@gmail.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=f46d044796334ac09504cedf718d X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam_score: 0.0 X-Spam_score_int: 0 X-Spam_bar: / --f46d044796334ac09504cedf718d Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 +1 Though, it's a lot easier for me to say "Yes, amazing index is essential" when I'm not the one doing the work. On Mon, Nov 19, 2012 at 3:43 PM, .alyn.post. wrote: > On Mon, Nov 19, 2012 at 12:39:57PM -0800, Robin Lee Powell wrote: > > On Mon, Nov 19, 2012 at 08:31:37PM +0000, And Rosta wrote: > > > Robin Lee Powell, On 19/11/2012 20:26: > > > >On Mon, Nov 19, 2012 at 08:19:45PM +0000, And Rosta wrote: > > > >>Robin Lee Powell, On 19/11/2012 18:52: > > > >>>Oh, and that the PDF needs to be something we can send to a > > > >>>printer to make a book out of, so (in particular) cross > > > >>>references need to be page number based (which is why we can't > > > >>>just print the HTML, or anything converted from it; I haven't > > > >>>found anything that produces page number xrefs from html, much > > > >>>as I'd *LOVE* to solve the whole thing that way). > > > >> > > > >>If the book's subsections are sufficiently short, wouldn't > > > >>cross-references to subsections, rather than to page numbers, > > > >>suffice? Many academic books do work thus. > > > > > > > >Well, you've got a copy of the red book, what do you think? :) > > > > > > > >Can you show me such a book? I've never seen that. Maybe > > > >something on Amazon where the "look in this book" is working? > > > > > > I haven't time to do that. I'd just suggest that since this page > > > number issue is an impediment to progress, you set it aside. The > > > extra progress you could make by setting it aside outweighs any > > > benefit of specific page refs. > > > > OK. Can other people weigh in here? If you were reading a > > technical book that had no page number based index, wouldn't that > > shock you? Wouldn't you be all like "what a pack of losers"? I > > think I would. > > > > I've been assuming that that's just totally unacceptable, but I'm > > willing to be persuaded otherwise. > > > > I feel roughly aligned with you. If we publish a book describing a > logical language and we can't be bothered to properly > cross-reference it I'd wonder about us more than I already do. > > Honestly, A good index is worth doing by hand, if that's what it > takes. > > mi'e .alyn. > -- > .i ma'a lo bradi cu penmi gi'e du > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "lojban" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. --f46d044796334ac09504cedf718d Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable +1

Though, it's a lot easier for me to say "Yes= , amazing index is essential" when I'm not the one doing the work.=

On Mon, Nov 19, 2012 at 3:43 PM, .alyn.p= ost. <alyn.post@lodockikumazvati.org> wrote:
On M= on, Nov 19, 2012 at 12:39:57PM -0800, Robin Lee Powell wrote:
> On Mon, Nov 19, 2012 at 08:31:37PM +0000, And Rosta wrote:
> > Robin Lee Powell, On 19/11/2012 20:26:
> > >On Mon, Nov 19, 2012 at 08:19:45PM +0000, And Rosta wrote: > > >>Robin Lee Powell, On 19/11/2012 18:52:
> > >>>Oh, and that the PDF needs to be something we can sen= d to a
> > >>>printer to make a book out of, so (in particular) cro= ss
> > >>>references need to be page number based (which is why= we can't
> > >>>just print the HTML, or anything converted from it; I= haven't
> > >>>found anything that produces page number xrefs from h= tml, much
> > >>>as I'd *LOVE* to solve the whole thing that way).=
> > >>
> > >>If the book's subsections are sufficiently short, wou= ldn't
> > >>cross-references to subsections, rather than to page numb= ers,
> > >>suffice? Many academic books do work thus.
> > >
> > >Well, you've got a copy of the red book, what do you thin= k? :)
> > >
> > >Can you show me such a book? =A0I've never seen that. =A0= Maybe
> > >something on Amazon where the "look in this book" i= s working?
> >
> > I haven't time to do that. I'd just suggest that since th= is page
> > number issue is an impediment to progress, you set it aside. The<= br> > > extra progress you could make by setting it aside outweighs any > > benefit of specific page refs.
>
> OK. =A0Can other people weigh in here? =A0If you were reading a
> technical book that had no page number based index, wouldn't that<= br> > shock you? =A0Wouldn't you be all like "what a pack of losers= "? =A0I
> think I would.
>
> I've been assuming that that's just totally unacceptable, but = I'm
> willing to be persuaded otherwise.
>

I feel roughly aligned with you. =A0If we publish a book descri= bing a
logical language and we can't be bothered to properly
cross-reference it I'd wonder about us more than I already do.

Honestly, A good index is worth doing by hand, if that's what it
takes.

mi'e .alyn.
--
.i ma'a lo bradi cu penmi gi'e du

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