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Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2012 13:33:32 -0800
From: Robin Lee Powell <rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org>
To: lojban@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Please answer a book design opinion question (was Re: [lojban]
 CLL 1.1/ CLL 2.0. What is your opinion in the current situation?)
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Also please note that this is a solved problem, it's just that
solving it means docbook -> LaTeX -> PDF, and then also seperately
having a docbook -> HTML process; having docbook -> HTML and then
optionally HTML -> PDF would be an easier toolchain to setup, and
would mean that both versions have consistent visual setup (whether
you consider that last good or bad is certainly a matter of
opinion).

-Robin

On Mon, Nov 19, 2012 at 01:31:38PM -0800, Robin Lee Powell wrote:
> I was under the impression that you weren't doing Lojban anything
> anymore.
> 
> The problem I have with producing a PDF with InDesign is what we
> would do to generate everything *else*.  Also what happens if you
> disappear again; if I disappear, there are people here who could
> rebuild the docbook if they absolutely had to, but I doubt if anyone
> else here uses that tool.
> 
> Having said all that, if you want me to give you a sample subset of
> the docbook and see what you come up with, and in particular see
> what sorts of files get generated if you try to export it back into
> xml or whatever, we could certainly give that a shot.
> 
> As to your points, the choices are "page numbered index" and "index
> that cannot refer to anything that relates to pages in any way at
> all, so it can say section numbers but not paragraph numbers on a
> page, but section number + paragraph within that section might be
> possible".
> 
> It's also worth noting that this problem is already solved, it's
> just a bit of a pain.
> 
> -Robin
> 
> On Mon, Nov 19, 2012 at 04:19:46PM -0500, Matt Arnold wrote:
> > My preferences are in the following order, from best to worst:
> > 
> > 1. A page index.
> > 2. An index that refers to section and paragraph numbers, if every
> > page has a section number, and every paragraph in the book is
> > numbered. I have used reference materials which worked that way, and
> > they were successful. Such an index does not change if typsetting or
> > layout were to re-flow text to different pages.
> > 3. No index.
> > 4. No CLL 2.0.
> > 
> > Auto-indexing a book from a source file in XML is a feature of Adobe
> > InDesign. I would love to use that to produce CLL 2.0, but have met
> > resistance to it in the past.
> > 
> > -Eppcott
> > 
> > On Mon, Nov 19, 2012 at 4:02 PM, Luke Bergen <lukeabergen@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > +1
> > >
> > > Though, it's a lot easier for me to say "Yes, amazing index is essential"
> > > when I'm not the one doing the work.
> > >
> > >
> > > On Mon, Nov 19, 2012 at 3:43 PM, .alyn.post.
> > > <alyn.post@lodockikumazvati.org> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> On Mon, Nov 19, 2012 at 12:39:57PM -0800, Robin Lee Powell wrote:
> > >> > On Mon, Nov 19, 2012 at 08:31:37PM +0000, And Rosta wrote:
> > >> > > Robin Lee Powell, On 19/11/2012 20:26:
> > >> > > >On Mon, Nov 19, 2012 at 08:19:45PM +0000, And Rosta wrote:
> > >> > > >>Robin Lee Powell, On 19/11/2012 18:52:
> > >> > > >>>Oh, and that the PDF needs to be something we can send to a
> > >> > > >>>printer to make a book out of, so (in particular) cross
> > >> > > >>>references need to be page number based (which is why we can't
> > >> > > >>>just print the HTML, or anything converted from it; I haven't
> > >> > > >>>found anything that produces page number xrefs from html, much
> > >> > > >>>as I'd *LOVE* to solve the whole thing that way).
> > >> > > >>
> > >> > > >>If the book's subsections are sufficiently short, wouldn't
> > >> > > >>cross-references to subsections, rather than to page numbers,
> > >> > > >>suffice? Many academic books do work thus.
> > >> > > >
> > >> > > >Well, you've got a copy of the red book, what do you think? :)
> > >> > > >
> > >> > > >Can you show me such a book?  I've never seen that.  Maybe
> > >> > > >something on Amazon where the "look in this book" is working?
> > >> > >
> > >> > > I haven't time to do that. I'd just suggest that since this page
> > >> > > number issue is an impediment to progress, you set it aside. The
> > >> > > extra progress you could make by setting it aside outweighs any
> > >> > > benefit of specific page refs.
> > >> >
> > >> > OK.  Can other people weigh in here?  If you were reading a
> > >> > technical book that had no page number based index, wouldn't that
> > >> > shock you?  Wouldn't you be all like "what a pack of losers"?  I
> > >> > think I would.
> > >> >
> > >> > I've been assuming that that's just totally unacceptable, but I'm
> > >> > willing to be persuaded otherwise.
> > >> >
> > >>
> > >> I feel roughly aligned with you.  If we publish a book describing a
> > >> logical language and we can't be bothered to properly
> > >> cross-reference it I'd wonder about us more than I already do.
> > >>
> > >> Honestly, A good index is worth doing by hand, if that's what it
> > >> takes.
> > >>
> > >> mi'e .alyn.
> > >> --
> > >> .i ma'a lo bradi cu penmi gi'e du
> > >>
> > >> --
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> > 
> 
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