Received: from mail-vb0-f61.google.com ([209.85.212.61]:65191) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1TbEV6-0000LR-Pd; Wed, 21 Nov 2012 09:54:27 -0800 Received: by mail-vb0-f61.google.com with SMTP id fs19sf2116234vbb.16 for ; Wed, 21 Nov 2012 09:54:10 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=20120806; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=jfBuDm+zfWoU+ssD3czsSDnFzVnUhzDCItr52I6TPRw=; b=kOOHh19ZKG1SPimanrxieZSLzrymjC/j9cbydQ4tNHCNpgjgkxS5l9WHZOJgZYY+5n GpE48eT7MOBaLpyvjRAcQD6qjAG+ixmtgO6sg9ZS0qTwhwNmBEoeIMIRLbXtYF0NSOK1 nGv/IYyPSLo2eoF08keCRUQTZAPhBOQ6znRtkCNWYHgbWV61BZDSOz3YZtYlprMVcMTK 6pEovAWqqtvvDMpZlp/zhGiteaBA4wl3s7R0th+IQ03Xf4eCV8IH3cEz9lkGsKoqZpI9 +j6IRPlb9D4DgSDQYBvdE9azbFaE19AH91GdLa3rgUgptt7nN5S0QA0w1iB/yCNlwDYN 5kNQ== Received: by 10.50.37.242 with SMTP id b18mr205956igk.6.1353520449582; Wed, 21 Nov 2012 09:54:09 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.50.193.138 with SMTP id ho10ls5458681igc.9.canary; Wed, 21 Nov 2012 09:54:09 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.50.153.230 with SMTP id vj6mr332221igb.3.1353520449045; Wed, 21 Nov 2012 09:54:09 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.50.153.230 with SMTP id vj6mr332220igb.3.1353520449017; Wed, 21 Nov 2012 09:54:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-ob0-f171.google.com (mail-ob0-f171.google.com [209.85.214.171]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id wu4si26560igb.3.2012.11.21.09.54.08 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Wed, 21 Nov 2012 09:54:09 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of eyeonus@gmail.com designates 209.85.214.171 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.214.171; Received: by mail-ob0-f171.google.com with SMTP id dn14so7612528obc.2 for ; Wed, 21 Nov 2012 09:54:08 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.60.3.231 with SMTP id f7mr8808110oef.43.1353520448828; Wed, 21 Nov 2012 09:54:08 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.60.94.71 with HTTP; Wed, 21 Nov 2012 09:54:08 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <291e8942-2309-4343-b7ff-a56ac60c320a@googlegroups.com> Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2012 10:54:08 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] Novel written system that parallels the logic of Lojban? From: Jonathan Jones To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: eyeonus@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of eyeonus@gmail.com designates 209.85.214.171 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=eyeonus@gmail.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=e89a8ff1ce488c738904cf050968 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam_score: 0.0 X-Spam_score_int: 0 X-Spam_bar: / --e89a8ff1ce488c738904cf050968 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 On Wed, Nov 21, 2012 at 10:46 AM, Michael Turniansky wrote: > Actually, Jonathan, I would have dismissed it too, as "oh, great, > another suggestion for a writing system" But this one was actually > different. It's suggesting that rather than a simply one-to-one > substitution of the existing orthography to another letter-based system, > that we basically give each brivla a single symbol, based on things such as > place value, so that, for example, each of the danlu gismu might look > similar, since they have similar terbri. It's an intriguing suggestion, > but I doubt there's much support for it. > --gejyspa > I wasn't dismissing it. I told him to Google larlermorna because that writing system is similar to what he described. I agree that there isn't likely going to be much support for such a system. > On Wed, Nov 21, 2012 at 11:34 AM, Jonathan Jones wrote: > >> Google "larlermorna". >> >> >> On Tue, Nov 20, 2012 at 4:43 PM, charlicopter@gmail.com < >> lanternsmith@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> Greetings everyone, >>> This is my first time visiting the forums... >>> My curiosity currently lies in the possibility of a written system that >>> could be developed around Lojban that respects its logical nature. >>> As far as I can tell in my rudimentary beginnings as a student of >>> Lojban: The language is designed around phonetics in a similar way to >>> Japanese. by that, I mean that the language uses predictable and consistent >>> combinations of vowel and consonant phonetics in the structure of the >>> constituent word-forms. >>> >>> Preposition: In written Lojban, what if you used a character system >>> similar to Japanese hiragana and katakana: >>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katakana & >>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hiragana >>> Japanese Katakana and Hiragana are based on characters which hail from >>> ancient cultural influences, but what if you started fresh and designed >>> characters around some kind of logical analysis of Lojbanic structure, >>> syntax, logic, etc. such that the characters are themselves always >>> internally consistent and logical? Pictorally speaking, you have many >>> variables to draw upon: stroke length, angle, curvature, dots, >>> rotation/orientation, etc. certainly as many variables as are needed to >>> accurately represent the phonetics, syntax etc. of the language. In this >>> way, entire gismu might have a chance of being reduced to single characters >>> which LOOK and FLOW as logically as they behave. >>> >>> Thoughts? >>> >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "lojban" group. >>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>> https://groups.google.com/d/msg/lojban/-/RSMpezF6avUJ. >>> To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>> lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >>> For more options, visit this group at >>> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> mu'o mi'e .aionys. >> >> .i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o >> (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D ) >> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "lojban" group. >> To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. >> > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "lojban" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. > -- mu'o mi'e .aionys. .i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D ) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. --e89a8ff1ce488c738904cf050968 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On Wed, Nov 21, 2012 at 10:46 AM, Michael Turnia= nsky <mturniansky@gmail.com> wrote:
=A0 Actually, Jonathan, I would have dismissed it too, as = "oh, great, another suggestion for a writing system" =A0But this = one was actually different. =A0It's suggesting that rather than a simpl= y one-to-one substitution of the existing orthography to another letter-bas= ed system, that we basically give each brivla a single symbol, based on thi= ngs such as place value, so that, for example, each of the danlu gismu migh= t look similar, since they have similar terbri. =A0 It's an intriguing = suggestion, but I doubt there's much support for it.
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0--gejyspa

I was= n't dismissing it. I told him to Google larlermorna because that writin= g system is similar to what he described.

I agree that there isn'= ;t likely going to be much support for such a system.
=A0
On Wed, Nov 21, 2012 at 11:34 AM, Jona= than Jones <eyeonus@gmail.com> wrote:
Google "larlermorna".

On Tue, Nov 20, 2012 at 4:43 PM, charlicopter@gmail.com <lanternsmith@gmail.com> wrote:
Greetings everyone,
This is my first tim= e visiting the forums...
My curiosity currently lies in the possibility = of a written system that could be developed around Lojban that respects its= logical nature.
As far as I can tell in my rudimentary beginnings as a student of Lojban: T= he language is designed around phonetics in a similar way to Japanese. by t= hat, I mean that the language uses predictable and consistent combinations = of vowel and consonant phonetics in the structure of the constituent word-f= orms.

Preposition: In written Lojban, what if you used a character system sim= ilar to Japanese hiragana and katakana: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katakana= =A0 &=A0 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hiragana
Japanese Katakana and Hiragana are based on characters which hail from anci= ent cultural influences, but what if you started fresh and designed charact= ers around some kind of logical analysis of Lojbanic structure, syntax, log= ic, etc. such that the characters are themselves always internally consiste= nt and logical? Pictorally speaking, you have many variables to draw upon: = stroke length, angle, curvature, dots, rotation/orientation, etc. certainly= as many variables as are needed to accurately represent the phonetics, syn= tax etc. of the language. In this way, entire gismu might have a chance of = being reduced to single characters which LOOK and FLOW as logically as they= behave.

Thoughts?


--
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To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com= /d/msg/lojban/-/RSMpezF6avUJ.
=20 To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojba= n?hl=3Den.



--
mu'o mi'e .aionys.

.i.e'= ;ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o
(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )


--
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To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojba= n?hl=3Den.

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--
mu'o mi= 'e .aionys.

.i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.l= uk. mi patfu do zo'o
(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. = :D )

--
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For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den.
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