Received: from mail-qc0-f189.google.com ([209.85.216.189]:52989) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1TbEam-0000PX-1V; Wed, 21 Nov 2012 10:00:30 -0800 Received: by mail-qc0-f189.google.com with SMTP id c11sf5391492qca.16 for ; Wed, 21 Nov 2012 10:00:01 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=20120806; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=oDWRpQ0atQ8las7vWr1P04i2STc17shWLeBKoYR/bxg=; b=LVznCNhvUN28sfWldSiuWJBNVun/LQ8UZnOcZ6FacwFRtHbnhwqypKDvVq/Z/I/rpH ivD934cvhMNjOaVP+Jf6CLCeAbOAW5GZZ02PiSFfbuXslNdF6bDs2FspsBBwJXa49mG/ GWtjGT/5GT9arAes7aCregszkL4P+kxq4XlJ3gzLbqHbLqNAH1lXXnNJYUfaip8KHzQK 0oBlcnS+iP/ob0mL13+OjVfcGXFhJehabnxp9lRhC3hLcKZG1Mh6aztRvGgFyHBXhKT0 TZ3sYqgmGznczXYMjynZb3d80eFu5vMUSVYJ6GdY9/lh/N3kxQ2GzI4llEhQzNuW+OXx nqqQ== Received: by 10.50.37.242 with SMTP id b18mr213416igk.6.1353520801444; Wed, 21 Nov 2012 10:00:01 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.50.140.40 with SMTP id rd8ls4914636igb.2.canary; Wed, 21 Nov 2012 10:00:00 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.50.77.133 with SMTP id s5mr321309igw.4.1353520800554; Wed, 21 Nov 2012 10:00:00 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.50.77.133 with SMTP id s5mr321308igw.4.1353520800534; Wed, 21 Nov 2012 10:00:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-oa0-f41.google.com (mail-oa0-f41.google.com [209.85.219.41]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id x4si62414igm.0.2012.11.21.10.00.00 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Wed, 21 Nov 2012 10:00:00 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of mturniansky@gmail.com designates 209.85.219.41 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.219.41; Received: by mail-oa0-f41.google.com with SMTP id k14so8390842oag.0 for ; Wed, 21 Nov 2012 10:00:00 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.60.170.114 with SMTP id al18mr17338472oec.56.1353520800358; Wed, 21 Nov 2012 10:00:00 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.182.38.227 with HTTP; Wed, 21 Nov 2012 10:00:00 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <291e8942-2309-4343-b7ff-a56ac60c320a@googlegroups.com> Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2012 13:00:00 -0500 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] Novel written system that parallels the logic of Lojban? From: Michael Turniansky To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: mturniansky@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of mturniansky@gmail.com designates 209.85.219.41 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=mturniansky@gmail.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=bcaec54b4a0e80614704cf051e63 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam_score: 0.0 X-Spam_score_int: 0 X-Spam_bar: / --bcaec54b4a0e80614704cf051e63 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 But I disagree that it is similar. Larlermorna (which I use for my gmail avatar) is based on letters/phonemes, as are all the alternate orthographies. Charlicopter was suggesting a system built around "Lojbanic structure, syntax, logic, etc." Completely different idea. --gejyspa On Wed, Nov 21, 2012 at 12:54 PM, Jonathan Jones wrote: > On Wed, Nov 21, 2012 at 10:46 AM, Michael Turniansky < > mturniansky@gmail.com> wrote: > >> Actually, Jonathan, I would have dismissed it too, as "oh, great, >> another suggestion for a writing system" But this one was actually >> different. It's suggesting that rather than a simply one-to-one >> substitution of the existing orthography to another letter-based system, >> that we basically give each brivla a single symbol, based on things such as >> place value, so that, for example, each of the danlu gismu might look >> similar, since they have similar terbri. It's an intriguing suggestion, >> but I doubt there's much support for it. >> --gejyspa >> > > I wasn't dismissing it. I told him to Google larlermorna because that > writing system is similar to what he described. > > I agree that there isn't likely going to be much support for such a system. > > >> On Wed, Nov 21, 2012 at 11:34 AM, Jonathan Jones wrote: >> >>> Google "larlermorna". >>> >>> >>> On Tue, Nov 20, 2012 at 4:43 PM, charlicopter@gmail.com < >>> lanternsmith@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>>> Greetings everyone, >>>> This is my first time visiting the forums... >>>> My curiosity currently lies in the possibility of a written system that >>>> could be developed around Lojban that respects its logical nature. >>>> As far as I can tell in my rudimentary beginnings as a student of >>>> Lojban: The language is designed around phonetics in a similar way to >>>> Japanese. by that, I mean that the language uses predictable and consistent >>>> combinations of vowel and consonant phonetics in the structure of the >>>> constituent word-forms. >>>> >>>> Preposition: In written Lojban, what if you used a character system >>>> similar to Japanese hiragana and katakana: >>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katakana & >>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hiragana >>>> Japanese Katakana and Hiragana are based on characters which hail from >>>> ancient cultural influences, but what if you started fresh and designed >>>> characters around some kind of logical analysis of Lojbanic structure, >>>> syntax, logic, etc. such that the characters are themselves always >>>> internally consistent and logical? Pictorally speaking, you have many >>>> variables to draw upon: stroke length, angle, curvature, dots, >>>> rotation/orientation, etc. certainly as many variables as are needed to >>>> accurately represent the phonetics, syntax etc. of the language. In this >>>> way, entire gismu might have a chance of being reduced to single characters >>>> which LOOK and FLOW as logically as they behave. >>>> >>>> Thoughts? >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>> Groups "lojban" group. >>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msg/lojban/-/RSMpezF6avUJ. >>>> To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>> lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> mu'o mi'e .aionys. >>> >>> .i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o >>> (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D ) >>> >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "lojban" group. >>> To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>> lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >>> For more options, visit this group at >>> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. >>> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "lojban" group. >> To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. >> > > > > -- > mu'o mi'e .aionys. > > .i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o > (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D ) > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "lojban" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. --bcaec54b4a0e80614704cf051e63 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
But I disagree that it is similar. =A0Larlermorna (which I= use for my gmail avatar) is based on letters/phonemes, as are all the alte= rnate orthographies. =A0Charlicopter was suggesting a system built around &= quot;Lojbanic structure, syntax, logic, etc."= ; =A0Completely=A0different idea.

=A0 =A0 =A0 --gejyspa
<= /font>
On Wed, Nov 21, 2012 at 12:54 PM, Jona= than Jones <eyeonus@gmail.com> wrote:
On Wed, Nov 21, 2012 at 10:46 AM, Michael Turniansky <= ;mturniansky@gma= il.com> wrote:
=A0 Actually, Jonathan, I would have dismissed it too, as = "oh, great, another suggestion for a writing system" =A0But this = one was actually different. =A0It's suggesting that rather than a simpl= y one-to-one substitution of the existing orthography to another letter-bas= ed system, that we basically give each brivla a single symbol, based on thi= ngs such as place value, so that, for example, each of the danlu gismu migh= t look similar, since they have similar terbri. =A0 It's an intriguing = suggestion, but I doubt there's much support for it.
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0--gejyspa
I wasn't dismissing it. I told him to Google larlermorna because that = writing system is similar to what he described.

I agree that there i= sn't likely going to be much support for such a system.
=A0
On Wed, Nov 21, 2012 at 11:3= 4 AM, Jonathan Jones <eyeonus@gmail.com> wrote:
Google "larlermorna".

On Tue, Nov 20, 2012 at 4:43 PM, charlicopter@gmail.com <lanternsmith@gmail.com> wrote:
Greetings everyone,
This is my first tim= e visiting the forums...
My curiosity currently lies in the possibility = of a written system that could be developed around Lojban that respects its= logical nature.
As far as I can tell in my rudimentary beginnings as a student of Lojban: T= he language is designed around phonetics in a similar way to Japanese. by t= hat, I mean that the language uses predictable and consistent combinations = of vowel and consonant phonetics in the structure of the constituent word-f= orms.

Preposition: In written Lojban, what if you used a character system sim= ilar to Japanese hiragana and katakana: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katakana= =A0 &=A0 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hiragana
Japanese Katakana and Hiragana are based on characters which hail from anci= ent cultural influences, but what if you started fresh and designed charact= ers around some kind of logical analysis of Lojbanic structure, syntax, log= ic, etc. such that the characters are themselves always internally consiste= nt and logical? Pictorally speaking, you have many variables to draw upon: = stroke length, angle, curvature, dots, rotation/orientation, etc. certainly= as many variables as are needed to accurately represent the phonetics, syn= tax etc. of the language. In this way, entire gismu might have a chance of = being reduced to single characters which LOOK and FLOW as logically as they= behave.

Thoughts?


--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &= quot;lojban" group.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com= /d/msg/lojban/-/RSMpezF6avUJ.
=20 To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com.
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--
mu'o mi'e .aionys.

.i.e'= ;ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o
(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )


--
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To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com.
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--
mu'o mi'e .aionys.

= .i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'= o
(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )

--
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To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojba= n?hl=3Den.

--
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