Therefore, the author has the poi= nt. And we should reject such proposals.

On Thursday, November 22, 2= 012 7:48:49 PM UTC+4, jongausib wrote:

Well, I agree that it's comfortable that mos= t people are familiar with latin characters. But that simply mirrors the fa= ct that Europe/US had been very succesful in spreading their ideas and cult= ure to the rest of the world pu ze'ucaku by means of their greater economic= , political and cultural dominance (=3D cultural and economic colonialism).= McDonalds, CocaCola, Apple and Hollywood-produced movies are integrated in= an extremely wide range of cultures too nowadays. Lojbanic culture has the= potential of becoming something else than an extension of the euro-america= n global monoculture I think, to create something of their own. The reason = why lojbanists doesn't critize latin script on these grounds might be somet= hing for a sociologist to analyze. But until we've got a succesful ortograp= hy, that most lojbanists could agree on, I think latin characters will do j= ust fine.

mu'omi'e jongausib

<= /div>
So I don't necessarily think

Skickat fr=E5n min iPho= ne

22 nov 2012 kl. 16:12 skrev Michael Turniansky <m= turn...@gmail.com>:

larlermorna does indeed have (some) system to the lette= rs -- for example, the mirroring of the voice with their unvoice equivalent= s. But there have been plenty of other lojban orthographies, too. For= instance see http://www.lojban.org/tiki/Original+lojba= n+orthography Or for that matter, read about ALL the various attem= pts at alternate orthographies. http://www.lojban.org/tiki/Alternate+Orthographies Quite frankly, the advantage of using an= existing orthography that most people in the world are already familiar wi= th (which is used by an EXTREMELY wide range of cultures all over the world= ) always far outweighs people's resistance to having to learn an entirely n= ew orthography, so proposals always fizzle out.

--gej= yspa

On Thu, Nov 22, 2012 at 3= :56 AM, Sebastian <so.co...@gmail.com> wrote:

...Next question is: phonemic = or ideograms? The advantage of phonemic characters is they're not so many. = I like "larlermorna", it looks great and seems to be pretty easy to use, bu= t it hasn't the systematically phonetic system as tengwar has.

Ideograms does not take up as much t= extual space as phonemes does and they might look cool (I think the visual = impression really matters). And it's probably possible to construct them in= telligently, as charlicopter suggested to represent infor= mation about lojbanic structure (arity (place structure), abstractions, des= criptors, modifiers etc), by means of "strok= e length, angle, curvature, dots, rotation/orientation, etc."

Toki pona got their own set of hieroglyphs, so why not lojban?

Negative: = There are ba'e a lot of them, which need to be constructed (toki pona got 1= 23, lojban need at least 1800 + complex lujvo forms; and what about fu'ivla= ?). Phonetic information may get lost in a ideogram system, if not each cha= racter also contain all the phonemes of each word, but then the characters = would be fairly complex.

mu'omi'e jongausib
= Skickat fr=E5n min iPhone

22 nov 2012 kl. 09:32 = skrev Sebastian <so.co...@gmail.com>:

=
Latin orthography has the advantage of many people in the world k= now about it, it's being used a lot in scientific contexts, it's compatible= with ASCII, etc.

Negative: Latin letters are not cultural neutral, they'= ve got history and are a part of West's cultural "colonialism" or what you = would to call it.

There is no ortography associate= d with natural language that is cultural neutral, therefore I think it's a = great idea to construct a completely new set of characters, with no history= (yet).

When constructing this character set you may, or may no= t, be inspired by existing writing systems like hangul, japanese, devanagar= i, arabic etc etc., but I think the result should be something completely d= ifferent.

Tengwar has the advantage of not being so real-world cu= ltural biased, but it's still not uniquely associated with lojban. I think = lojban shouldn't borrow cultural signs from other, fictional or non-fiction= al, but have their own lojbanic (global) cultural system.

Next question is: phonemic or ideograms? The advantage = of phonemic characters is they're not so many. I like

<= br>Skickat fr=E5n min iPhone

21 nov 2012 kl. 19:15 skrev Morp= hemeAddict <lyt...@gmail.com>:

How does the current standard orth= ography not meet the aims of your proposal?

stevo<= br>
On Tue, Nov 20, 2012 at 6:43 PM, c= harli...@gmail.com <lanter...@gmail.com&= gt; wrote:

Greetings everyone,
This is my first tim= e visiting the forums...
My curiosity currently lies in the possibility = of a written system that could be developed around Lojban that respects its= logical nature.
As far as I can tell in my rudimentary beginnings as a student of Lojban: T= he language is designed around phonetics in a similar way to Japanese. by t= hat, I mean that the language uses predictable and consistent combinations = of vowel and consonant phonetics in the structure of the constituent word-f= orms.

Preposition: In written Lojban, what if you used a character system sim= ilar to Japanese hiragana and katakana: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katakana= & http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hiragana
Japanese Katakana and Hiragana are based on characters which hail from anci= ent cultural influences, but what if you started fresh and designed charact= ers around some kind of logical analysis of Lojbanic structure, syntax, log= ic, etc. such that the characters are themselves always internally consiste= nt and logical? Pictorally speaking, you have many variables to draw upon: = stroke length, angle, curvature, dots, rotation/orientation, etc. certainly= as many variables as are needed to accurately represent the phonetics, syn= tax etc. of the language. In this way, entire gismu might have a chance of = being reduced to single characters which LOOK and FLOW as logically as they= behave.

Thoughts?

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