Received: from mail-ob0-f189.google.com ([209.85.214.189]:52960) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1Tbksx-00052Q-2k; Thu, 22 Nov 2012 20:29:15 -0800 Received: by mail-ob0-f189.google.com with SMTP id eh20sf6162378obb.16 for ; Thu, 22 Nov 2012 20:28:56 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=20120806; h=x-beenthere:date:from:to:message-id:in-reply-to:references:subject :mime-version:x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=Fmc9yIKxSItNqJtpXqrx0+0rzaC/AMZpa2QPgNhgK24=; b=yYzEtRlpI/mpFHV5q369EQrryeA4Hw8WkUGmAFtdwHcnU5yNUTZCxz6/oCvm8jSBhh ytVv4pxPlLvhNt9oBU99xvwVc9XMsV5usoIGV6StZ2Tn/8j0CiT3CS3LfAHxlD2BDt2t xPrvJOvs5SsBoq/idE3PgxIVPmfZDcbXpIC0vkVKIdhdIrQd0pRwvjr61JbbUKJKSDjU lZnUvScyEfqTavSL9bRBd/0ibCiGkc92fpKNidA/UQ+CcAvbenTKcg29k1YnXmup354j O0X/hEtxhwOouyQRlpC1tFV5sza3ctcc6+mzJlg95n8aupkWsc9PrUuAM2B7FplnFO71 N8/A== Received: by 10.49.116.193 with SMTP id jy1mr413449qeb.2.1353644936490; Thu, 22 Nov 2012 20:28:56 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.49.82.19 with SMTP id e19ls187142qey.38.gmail; Thu, 22 Nov 2012 20:28:55 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.49.86.106 with SMTP id o10mr405702qez.14.1353644935082; Thu, 22 Nov 2012 20:28:55 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2012 20:28:54 -0800 (PST) From: la gleki To: lojban@googlegroups.com Message-Id: <77239d80-61bd-44d9-a5b4-929355769c55@googlegroups.com> In-Reply-To: References: <86e78277-c410-4da2-bf88-2c3b28752932@googlegroups.com> <20120829023927.GN28376@stodi.digitalkingdom.org> <26403884.2krTYlLp09@caracal> <20120924051041.GP25097@stodi.digitalkingdom.org> <20120924074029.GO1589@nvg.org> <5c9be86d-9724-4bf6-a373-d89473ae85c8@googlegroups.com> <16cb715c-d3ee-4e2a-b50c-535e9ed07321@googlegroups.com> Subject: Re: [lojban] Two new gismu, "stomach" and "back of body". And a proposal for an updated method of generating gismu. MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Original-Sender: gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_815_7755127.1353644934620" X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Spam_score: 0.1 X-Spam_score_int: 1 X-Spam_bar: / X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "stodi.digitalkingdom.org", has identified this incoming email as possible spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it (if it isn't spam) or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see the administrator of that system for details. Content preview: On Friday, November 23, 2012 3:36:59 AM UTC+4, tsani wrote: > > When it comes to discussing the front of the body, we have {flira} for the > face, {cutne} for the chest, and {betfu} for the abdomen. Now, when it > comes to discussing the back, there're the (poorly formed) lujvo {cutyti'e} > and {befti'e}, which according to the gismu deep stucture, simply mean "x1 > is behind the chest of x2" and "x1 is behind the abdomen of x2". With that > in mind, would "back of head" be {firti'e} ? Can we coin joi-based lujvo to > mean frontal side and dorsal side? They could be {cutyjolbe'u} and > {cutyti'ekepjolkembefti'e} but that's just getting silly. [...] Content analysis details: (0.1 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- 0.0 FREEMAIL_FROM Sender email is commonly abused enduser mail provider (gleki.is.my.name[at]gmail.com) 0.0 DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED No valid author signature, adsp_override is CUSTOM_MED -0.0 SPF_PASS SPF: sender matches SPF record 0.0 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message 0.1 DKIM_SIGNED Message has a DKIM or DK signature, not necessarily valid 0.0 T_DKIM_INVALID DKIM-Signature header exists but is not valid ------=_Part_815_7755127.1353644934620 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Friday, November 23, 2012 3:36:59 AM UTC+4, tsani wrote: > > When it comes to discussing the front of the body, we have {flira} for th= e=20 > face, {cutne} for the chest, and {betfu} for the abdomen. Now, when it=20 > comes to discussing the back, there're the (poorly formed) lujvo {cutyti'= e}=20 > and {befti'e}, which according to the gismu deep stucture, simply mean "x= 1=20 > is behind the chest of x2" and "x1 is behind the abdomen of x2". With tha= t=20 > in mind, would "back of head" be {firti'e} ? Can we coin joi-based lujvo = to=20 > mean frontal side and dorsal side? They could be {cutyjolbe'u} and=20 > {cutyti'ekepjolkembefti'e} but that's just getting silly. My guess is that "ventral side" and "dorsal side" has more rights to be=20 called prims than even "face". I opened the link provided by Arnt Richard= =20 Johansen and I doubt that all organisms look like humans. > .i mi'e la tsani mu'o > > > On 22 November 2012 13:40, la gleki >= wrote: > >> >> >> On Thursday, November 22, 2012 10:21:51 PM UTC+4, aionys wrote: >> >>> On Thu, Nov 22, 2012 at 9:54 AM, la gleki wrote= : >>> >>>> So do we need gismu for ventral side? >>>> If so I completely lost. >>>> >>>> Peeps, what are the terms fro that in the languages that you speak? >>>> I can't find such a word in English ("ventral side of body" doesn't=20 >>>> count). >>>> >>> >>> The ventral side is the opposite of the back side: the stomache, chest.= =20 >>> In fact, ventral comes from the Latin word for "belly". >>> >> >> But we already have {betfu} for that with a different meaning, arent we? >> >>> =20 >>> >>>> .e'u if English and other languages lack this word we shoudl remove= =20 >>>> them from the algorithm and retain the languages that have this concep= t in=20 >>>> a short rootword. >>>> >>>> >>>> On Monday, September 24, 2012 11:40:40 AM UTC+4, Arnt Richard Johansen= =20 >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> On Sun, Sep 23, 2012 at 10:10:41PM -0700, Robin Lee Powell wrote:=20 >>>>> > On Wed, Aug 29, 2012 at 07:12:54AM -0400, Pierre Abbat wrote:=20 >>>>> >=20 >>>>> > > The cutne is anterior to the betfu; both have a ventral surface.= =20 >>>>> >=20 >>>>> > Can you point met to an explanation of those words, and words like= =20 >>>>> > them, that makes that make sense? Because I don't get it.=20 >>>>> >>>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/**A**natomical_terms_of_location#**Ve** >>>>> rtebrate_directional_termsis a bit geeky, but hopefully = it helps.=20 >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> --=20 >>>>> Arnt Richard Johansen =20 >>>>> http://arj.nvg.org/=20 >>>>> On the Semantic Web, it's too hard to prove you're not a dog. --Bill= =20 >>>>> de h=EF=BF=BDra=20 >>>>> >>>> --=20 >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google=20 >>>> Groups "lojban" group. >>>> To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/*= * >>>> msg/lojban/-/2aTQL1yDfnEJ >>>> . >>>> >>>> To post to this group, send email to loj...@googlegroups.com. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+un...@** >>>> googlegroups.com. >>>> >>>> For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/** >>>> group/lojban?hl=3Den . >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> --=20 >>> mu'o mi'e .aionys. >>> >>> .i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o >>> (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D ) >>> >>> --=20 >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Group= s=20 >> "lojban" group. >> To view this discussion on the web visit=20 >> https://groups.google.com/d/msg/lojban/-/HXT1UOKdHjYJ. >> >> To post to this group, send email to loj...@googlegroups.com >> . >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to=20 >> lojban+un...@googlegroups.com . >> For more options, visit this group at=20 >> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den. >> > > --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/lo= jban/-/jruO485SXN8J. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den. ------=_Part_815_7755127.1353644934620 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

On Friday, November 23, 2012 3:36:59 AM UTC+4, tsani wrote:When it comes to discussing the front = of the body, we have {flira} for the face, {cutne} for the chest, and {betf= u} for the abdomen. Now, when it comes to discussing the back, there're the= (poorly formed) lujvo {cutyti'e} and {befti'e}, which according to the gis= mu deep stucture, simply mean "x1 is behind the chest of x2" and "x1 is beh= ind the abdomen of x2". With that in mind, would "back of head" be {firti'e= } ? Can we coin joi-based lujvo to mean frontal side and dorsal side? They = could be {cutyjolbe'u} and {cutyti'ekepjolkembefti'e} but that's just getti= ng silly.

My guess is that "ventral side" a= nd "dorsal side" has more rights to be called prims than even "face". I ope= ned the link provided by Arnt Richard Johansen and I doubt that all or= ganisms look like humans.


.i mi'e la tsani mu'o


On 22 November 2012 13:40, la gleki <glek= i.is...@gmail.com> wrote:


On Thursday, November 22, 2012 10:21= :51 PM UTC+4, aionys wrote:
On Thu, Nov 22, 2012 at 9:54 AM, la gleki <gleki.is...@gmail.com> wrote:
So do we need  gismu for ventral side?
If so I completely lost.

Peeps, what are the terms fro that in the languages = that you speak?
I can't find such a word in English ("ventral sid= e of body" doesn't count).

The ventral side is the opposite of the back side: th= e stomache, chest. In fact, ventral comes from the Latin word for "belly".<= br>

But we already have {= betfu} for that with a different meaning, arent we?
&nb= sp;
.e'u if English and other languages lack this word we shoud= l remove them from the algorithm and retain the languages that have this co= ncept in a short rootword.


On Monday, September 24, 2012 11:40:= 40 AM UTC+4, Arnt Richard Johansen wrote:
On Sun, Sep 23, 2012 at 10:10:= 41PM -0700, Robin Lee Powell wrote:
> On Wed, Aug 29, 2012 at 07:12:54AM -0400, Pierre Abbat wrote:
>=20
> > The cutne is anterior to the betfu; both have a ventral surfa= ce.
>=20
> Can you point met to an explanation of those words, and words like
> them, that makes that make sense?  Because I don't get it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/= Anatomical_terms_of_location#Vertebra= te_directional_terms is a bit geeky, but hopefully it helps.


--=20
Arnt Richard Johansen               =                  http://arj.nvg.org/
On the Semantic Web, it's too hard to prove you're not a dog. --B= ill de h=EF=BF=BDra

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--
= mu'o mi'e .aionys.

.i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.lu= k. mi patfu do zo'o
(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )<= br>

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