=A0 You're right, of course, it does. =A0I had quite f= orgotten that kliru and sodna don't just refer to chlorine and sodium r= espectively. I was wrong, and navni should be properly understood to be nob= le gasses exclusively, and the definition amended to reflect that. =A0Altho= ugh I still stand by my original assertion, that square brackets aren't= meant to be exhaustive lists, you could add helium to the list if it reall= y bothers you.

=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 --gejyspa

On Thu, Nov 29, 2012 at 4:52 PM, Jacob Errington <nictytan@gmail.com> wrote:

The thing is, Lojban *does* have a gismu for= alkali metals and halogens. With that in mind, there *should* be a gismu f= or noble gases (not simply "inert ones", which would exclude xeno= n). Seeing as {navni} has such little use, there's no problem in clarif= ying its definition to simply refer to any noble gas.

As for actinids and lanthanids, I considered this problem be= fore and created the following fu'i/zi'evla:

(saskrx)aktismi

(saskr)lantismi

The -smi ending comes from {simsa}, to parallel the use of -id. I haven'= ;t determined an adequate full place structure.

.i mi'e la tsani mu'o

On 29 November 2012 15:11, Michael Turnians= ky <mturniansky@gmail.com> wrote:

=A0 But again, lojban doesn= 't necessarily divide up the world in the same way as any other given s= chema/language does, for good or ill. =A0Since you specifically want to ask= about the periodic table, we can questions like, "why isn't there= a gismu for the lanthanides, or the actinides, haolgens, or heck, even = 9;radioactive'?" jinme includes alloys, etc. We have a word, ratni= , that can used to specify elemental compunds. =A0But again, we're talk= ing about a language that (at least on a gismu level) differentiates betwee= n rats and mice, but doesn't even have a word for "rodent". = =A0That classes worms and mollusks together, lumps tigers and cheetahs and = panthers (but not lions get their won), etc.=A0

=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0--geyspa

On Thu, Nov 29, 2012 at 2:07 PM, Ian Johnson <blindbrav= ado@gmail.com> wrote:

That seems significantly less useful than ha= ving a term for "noble gases", especially since nitrogen is actua= lly not as inert as everyone intuitively thinks--under very high pressure, = gas tanks for human breathing need to use noble gases rather than nitrogen,= because under sufficient pressure diatomic nitrogen begins reacting with o= ur tissues.

mu'o mi'e la latro'a

On Thu, Nov 29, 2012 at 10:33 AM, Michael Turniansky <mtu= rniansky@gmail.com> wrote:

=A0Except that "navni&= quot; officially refers to "inert gasses", not "noble gasses= " Therefore, they are not necessarily elemental, and also nitrogen wou= ld actually likely be included, despite the fact that it has its own specif= ic gismu, as well as stuff like=A0http://www.concep= tfire-uk.com/products/inert-gas-ig55-inergen-ig541/
=A0 =A0 =A0--gejyspa

On Wed, Nov 28, 2012 at 6:35 PM, Ian Johnson <blindbravado@gmail.com= > wrote:

Given that all the other ones were included,= its exclusion feels deliberate at a glance.

mu'o mi'e = la latro'a

On Wed, Nov 28, 2012 at 10:1= 5 AM, Michael Turniansky <mturniansky@gmail.com> wrote:<= br>
=A0Wh= o says helium is not a navni? It most certainly is. =A0It's solnavni. L= ists of things in square brackets in definitions are not intended to be=A0e= xhaustive, if that's what led you to that conclusion.
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 --gejyspa

On Sun, Nov 25, 2012 at 8:10 PM, Ian Johnson <blindbravado@gmail.com> wrote:

Apparently the default type of na= vni is neon, and helium is not a type of navni. Why are either of these the= case?

mu'o mi'e la latro'a
<= font color=3D"#888888">

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