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From: la gleki <gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com>
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Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: A new Lojbanic wiki (LMW). On the threshold of the
 25th anniversary of Lojban
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On Saturday, December 1, 2012 1:18:15 PM UTC+4, iesk wrote:
>
> Le samedi 1 d=E9cembre 2012 01:03:26 UTC+1, entot a =E9crit :
>>
>> It's not a question of if the default language is English or not. It's a=
=20
>> question of whether we present a Lojban-only page to a newcomer. I think=
=20
>> showing a Lojbanic interface and Lojban-only content to a newcomer is no=
t=20
>> friendly.
>>
> (I guess its 'friendlier' than piping interested people through English=
=20
> when it isn't necessary.)
> =20
>
>>
>> If the primary language is Lojban, are you, doi la gleki. .e la .iesk.,=
=20
>> fine with importing all the pages from TWiki to LMW? Lots of them are in=
=20
>> English.
>>
>
> Since I have so far not contributed anything useful to LMW, my opinion=20
> does not weigh much.
>
> I repeat that my idea of the wiki was that there be no 'primary language'=
=20
> for content pages. Everybody would write pages in the language(s) of thei=
r=20
> preference. I don't think it likely that there will be systematic=20
> translations of all LMW pages in all LMW languages (whichever that may be=
).=20
> Most content will probably be in English anyway (TWiki imports included),=
=20
> who would translate all that stuff? So why not have a page in, say, Frenc=
h,=20
> link to relevant pages in, say, English, Lojban, =85  I have been arguing=
=20
> *against* any primary language, because that would, to my understanding,=
=20
> mean that you have to write (or wait for somebody to write) a page about=
=20
> 'broda' in the primary language before you can add a page about 'broda' i=
n=20
> the language that you want.
>

Unfortunately I have no idea of a mechanism of creating a wiki without any=
=20
primary language. And LMW is after all a linguistic project. The core of=20
Lojbanistan is Lojban which is a language. Anyway LMW-contributors must=20
know at least some basic lojban. This will be enough to create new pages in=
=20
simple lojban first and then creating it's "translation" in another=20
language e.g. English.

*UPDATE:*
I already noticed first attempts of spamming in LMW from anonymous users.=
=20
Threrefore
ConfirmEdit extension installed to prevent spamming. ReCaptcha mode=20
activated for new users. It makes us dependent on third-party ReCaptcha=20
service, but it's the simplest solution.



> =20
>
>>
>> ni'o
>>
>> I'm holding off any work I said or hinted I'd be doing (working on the=
=20
>> community portal and migrating) until I get a clear picture of what the=
=20
>> site organization is going to be [1]:
>>
>> * Who is the target audience?
>> * What content will it have, in what language?
>>
>> As far as I understand, there are two interests at hand:
>>
>> * Target audience: Lojban speakers
>> * Content: Anything in Lojban? / Translation projects, Lojbanic writings=
,=20
>> Lojbanists index
>>
>> * Target audience: Lojban learners
>> * Content: Learning materials in English and other languages around the=
=20
>> world
>>
>
> I na=EFvely thought of a home for all things Lojbanic. ;)
> =20
>
>>
>> If this is the case, I think it's not out of the question to maintain tw=
o=20
>> separate wikis for each: lojban.org and ckule.lojban.org. In MediaWiki,=
=20
>> there is a way to share the extensions folder and such to lessen the=20
>> admininstrative task. If there are corresponding pages between the two,=
=20
>> they can be linked to each other in the way Wikipedia links pages in oth=
er=20
>> languages.
>>
>> Any thoughts?
>>
>> [1] This is partly an excuse to focus my time on helping CLL1.1; I'm not=
=20
>> a good multitasker.
>>
>> mu'o
>>
>

--=20
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "=
lojban" group.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/lo=
jban/-/pRGILiIkIBgJ.
To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou=
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?hl=3Den.


------=_Part_455_3006667.1354354498856
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<br><br>On Saturday, December 1, 2012 1:18:15 PM UTC+4, iesk wrote:<blockqu=
ote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0;margin-left: 0.8ex;border-left=
: 1px #ccc solid;padding-left: 1ex;">Le samedi 1 d=E9cembre 2012 01:03:26 U=
TC+1, entot a =E9crit&nbsp;:<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"marg=
in:0;margin-left:0.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div>It=
's not a question of if the default language is English or not. It's a ques=
tion of whether we present a Lojban-only page to a newcomer. I think showin=
g a Lojbanic interface and Lojban-only content to a newcomer is not friendl=
y.</div></blockquote><div>(I guess its 'friendlier' than piping interested =
people through English when it isn't necessary.)<br>&nbsp;</div><blockquote=
 class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0;margin-left:0.8ex;border-left:1px =
#ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div><br></div><div>If the primary language is=
 Lojban, are you, doi la gleki. .e la .iesk., fine with importing all the p=
ages from TWiki to LMW? Lots of them are in English.</div></blockquote><div=
><br>Since I have so far not contributed anything useful to LMW, my opinion=
 does not weigh much.<br><br>I repeat that my idea of the wiki was that the=
re be no 'primary language' for content pages. Everybody would write pages =
in the language(s) of their preference. I don't think it likely that there =
will be systematic translations of all LMW pages in all LMW languages (whic=
hever that may be). Most content will probably be in English anyway (TWiki =
imports included), who would translate all that stuff? So why not have a pa=
ge in, say, French, link to relevant pages in, say, English, Lojban, =85&nb=
sp; I have been arguing *against* any primary language, because that would,=
 to my understanding, mean that you have to write (or wait for somebody to =
write) a page about 'broda' in the primary language before you can add a pa=
ge about 'broda' in the language that you want.<br></div></blockquote><div>=
<br></div><div>Unfortunately I have no idea of a mechanism of creating a wi=
ki without any primary language. And LMW is after all a linguistic project.=
 The core of Lojbanistan is Lojban which is a language. Anyway LMW-contribu=
tors must know at least some basic lojban. This will be enough to create ne=
w pages in simple lojban first and then creating it's "translation" in anot=
her language e.g. English.</div><div><br></div><div><b>UPDATE:</b></div><di=
v>I already noticed first attempts of spamming in LMW from anonymous users.=
 Threrefore<br>ConfirmEdit extension installed to prevent spamming. ReCaptc=
ha mode activated for new users. It makes us dependent on third-party ReCap=
tcha service, but it's the simplest solution.</div><div><br></div><div><br>=
</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0;margin-left: 0.8=
ex;border-left: 1px #ccc solid;padding-left: 1ex;"><div></div><div><br>&nbs=
p;</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0;margin-left:0.8=
ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div><br></div><div>ni'o</d=
iv><div><br></div><div>I'm holding off any work I said or hinted I'd be doi=
ng (working on the community portal and migrating) until I get a clear pict=
ure of what the site organization is going to be [1]:</div><div><br></div><=
div>* Who is the target audience?</div><div>* What content will it have, in=
 what language?</div><div><br></div><div>As far as I understand, there are =
two interests at hand:</div><div><br></div><div>* Target audience: Lojban s=
peakers</div><div>* Content: Anything in Lojban? / Translation projects, Lo=
jbanic writings, Lojbanists index</div><div><br></div><div>* Target audienc=
e: Lojban learners</div><div>* Content: Learning materials in English and o=
ther languages around the world</div></blockquote><div><br>I na=EFvely thou=
ght of a home for all things Lojbanic. ;)<br>&nbsp;</div><blockquote class=
=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0;margin-left:0.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc s=
olid;padding-left:1ex"><div><br></div><div>If this is the case, I think it'=
s not out of the question to maintain two separate wikis for each: <a href=
=3D"http://lojban.org" target=3D"_blank">lojban.org</a> and <a href=3D"http=
://ckule.lojban.org" target=3D"_blank">ckule.lojban.org</a>. In MediaWiki, =
there is a way to share the extensions folder and such to lessen the admini=
nstrative task. If there are corresponding pages between the two, they can =
be linked to each other in the way Wikipedia links pages in other languages=
.</div><div><br></div><div>Any thoughts?</div><div><br></div><div>[1] This =
is partly an excuse to focus my time on helping CLL1.1; I'm not a good mult=
itasker.</div><div><br></div><div>mu'o</div></blockquote></blockquote>

<p></p>

-- <br />
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To view this discussion on the web visit <a href=3D"https://groups.google.c=
om/d/msg/lojban/-/pRGILiIkIBgJ">https://groups.google.com/d/msg/lojban/-/pR=
GILiIkIBgJ</a>.<br />=20
To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.<br />
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For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban=
?hl=3Den.<br />



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