Received: from mail-gh0-f189.google.com ([209.85.160.189]:46901) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1Tf5uf-0000pq-25; Sun, 02 Dec 2012 01:32:51 -0800 Received: by mail-gh0-f189.google.com with SMTP id f16sf1777597ghb.16 for ; Sun, 02 Dec 2012 01:32:30 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=20120806; h=x-beenthere:date:from:to:message-id:in-reply-to:references:subject :mime-version:x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=vsPnuQ8cAg0Tq3X/FryC9m2hAN9VRuVJAHQgAP9vIEU=; b=KDXs373nxt0N0m7V5OvwkO97cGCT98XBu8h2uiU5Mc1h8suZGDfeflK2I9SU/OTMJz gtGlsyLdUpLcC0AnNU/VCzzcP1iIpS692jrHVbIcSZDJHdAPUYpsdDihc+ZzIAnQOQsC 5MFIxYKi6qTvoUxAMWOc2ZlYRhzU5VeN9WfcFi9ezfOZhoWzq/eDstbYyZyUWQQL1A2h GCqCHlZOslgLXpgcTUkMjZmxccMJH9SBnoKkY9q28enW+9xYt5ViqltvFE0z/GxpSF5w 4yNSNy/d7BwCtUqlxd2x4/+m8RFszMW2IIPRxIF/VoHfyIRT+DfxtGxSisxxeGRjm+MZ R6iQ== Received: by 10.49.24.164 with SMTP id v4mr1581858qef.6.1354440750263; Sun, 02 Dec 2012 01:32:30 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.49.106.133 with SMTP id gu5ls709800qeb.14.gmail; Sun, 02 Dec 2012 01:32:28 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.49.58.140 with SMTP id r12mr1549657qeq.35.1354440748887; Sun, 02 Dec 2012 01:32:28 -0800 (PST) Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2012 01:32:28 -0800 (PST) From: la gleki To: lojban@googlegroups.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <21b9a5dc-7104-4b01-ac4a-3271e3000c8b@googlegroups.com> References: <98ac3a8c-7f91-4049-a8ee-128f9a947671@googlegroups.com> <60b24557-d28a-4330-91e2-4fa350f35cbd@googlegroups.com> <6cb197db-5690-48fb-8a88-3e633bb6f94b@googlegroups.com> <285a3908-97fd-4231-8767-479dd0779da8@googlegroups.com> <20121113171712.GG22972@sunflowerriver.org> <699d8b9d-2f04-4a0a-b2cf-a9f498ac19fd@googlegroups.com> <20121113194725.GL22972@sunflowerriver.org> <7c389416-3ceb-4d21-9b6b-e4e1cb5d312f@googlegroups.com> <2d4db499-3585-4456-b7c7-6a6846d6bcee@googlegroups.com> <8f8fac5c-9085-48eb-8793-d0e536e45f85@googlegroups.com> <016d8978-9681-4d55-af4b-543a79abe45f@googlegroups.com> <21b9a5dc-7104-4b01-ac4a-3271e3000c8b@googlegroups.com> Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: A new Lojbanic wiki (LMW). On the threshold of the 25th anniversary of Lojban MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Original-Sender: gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_259_26855769.1354440748485" X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam_score: 0.0 X-Spam_score_int: 0 X-Spam_bar: / ------=_Part_259_26855769.1354440748485 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sunday, December 2, 2012 1:10:34 AM UTC+4, vruxir wrote: > > Earlier today I was having a technical issue with translating --=20 > basically, after editing and saving a "message" in the translation=20 > interface, a dialog box would pop up with a "tpt-unknown-page" error.=20 > However, now the problem has disappeared and translating works again, so= =20 > I'm not sure what caused it. > > Another problem, as I try to add a new page, is that I can't upload image= s=20 > (specifically, I'm trying to add standard Wikimedia message box images,= =20 > such as the "!" information bubble and a pencil-and-paper icon). Upon=20 > clicking the "Upload" button at the bottom, I get: > > Upload Warning: Could not create directory=20 > "mwstore://local-backend/local-public/7/7e". > > Many people seem to think that it's a problem with folder write=20 > permissions. There is discussion here:=20 > http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Thread:Project:Support_desk/Trouble_uploadi= ng_after_installation > > The fact is that those directories have already been 777-ised. Earlier we= =20 could upload images. I really don't know what happened. =20 > (The same type of error message came up for both .svg and .png files.) > > mu'o > > On Saturday, December 1, 2012 4:34:58 AM UTC-5, la gleki wrote: >> >> >> >> On Saturday, December 1, 2012 1:18:15 PM UTC+4, iesk wrote: >>> >>> Le samedi 1 d=E9cembre 2012 01:03:26 UTC+1, entot a =E9crit : >>>> >>>> It's not a question of if the default language is English or not. It's= =20 >>>> a question of whether we present a Lojban-only page to a newcomer. I t= hink=20 >>>> showing a Lojbanic interface and Lojban-only content to a newcomer is = not=20 >>>> friendly. >>>> >>> (I guess its 'friendlier' than piping interested people through English= =20 >>> when it isn't necessary.) >>> =20 >>> >>>> >>>> If the primary language is Lojban, are you, doi la gleki. .e la .iesk.= ,=20 >>>> fine with importing all the pages from TWiki to LMW? Lots of them are = in=20 >>>> English. >>>> >>> >>> Since I have so far not contributed anything useful to LMW, my opinion= =20 >>> does not weigh much. >>> >>> I repeat that my idea of the wiki was that there be no 'primary=20 >>> language' for content pages. Everybody would write pages in the languag= e(s)=20 >>> of their preference. I don't think it likely that there will be systema= tic=20 >>> translations of all LMW pages in all LMW languages (whichever that may = be).=20 >>> Most content will probably be in English anyway (TWiki imports included= ),=20 >>> who would translate all that stuff? So why not have a page in, say, Fre= nch,=20 >>> link to relevant pages in, say, English, Lojban, =85 I have been argui= ng=20 >>> *against* any primary language, because that would, to my understanding= ,=20 >>> mean that you have to write (or wait for somebody to write) a page abou= t=20 >>> 'broda' in the primary language before you can add a page about 'broda'= in=20 >>> the language that you want. >>> >> >> Unfortunately I have no idea of a mechanism of creating a wiki without= =20 >> any primary language. And LMW is after all a linguistic project. The cor= e=20 >> of Lojbanistan is Lojban which is a language. Anyway LMW-contributors mu= st=20 >> know at least some basic lojban. This will be enough to create new pages= in=20 >> simple lojban first and then creating it's "translation" in another=20 >> language e.g. English. >> >> *UPDATE:* >> I already noticed first attempts of spamming in LMW from anonymous users= .=20 >> Threrefore >> ConfirmEdit extension installed to prevent spamming. ReCaptcha mode=20 >> activated for new users. It makes us dependent on third-party ReCaptcha= =20 >> service, but it's the simplest solution. >> >> >> >>> =20 >>> >>>> >>>> ni'o >>>> >>>> I'm holding off any work I said or hinted I'd be doing (working on the= =20 >>>> community portal and migrating) until I get a clear picture of what th= e=20 >>>> site organization is going to be [1]: >>>> >>>> * Who is the target audience? >>>> * What content will it have, in what language? >>>> >>>> As far as I understand, there are two interests at hand: >>>> >>>> * Target audience: Lojban speakers >>>> * Content: Anything in Lojban? / Translation projects, Lojbanic=20 >>>> writings, Lojbanists index >>>> >>>> * Target audience: Lojban learners >>>> * Content: Learning materials in English and other languages around th= e=20 >>>> world >>>> >>> >>> I na=EFvely thought of a home for all things Lojbanic. ;) >>> =20 >>> >>>> >>>> If this is the case, I think it's not out of the question to maintain= =20 >>>> two separate wikis for each: lojban.org and ckule.lojban.org. In=20 >>>> MediaWiki, there is a way to share the extensions folder and such to l= essen=20 >>>> the admininstrative task. If there are corresponding pages between the= two,=20 >>>> they can be linked to each other in the way Wikipedia links pages in o= ther=20 >>>> languages. >>>> >>>> Any thoughts? >>>> >>>> [1] This is partly an excuse to focus my time on helping CLL1.1; I'm= =20 >>>> not a good multitasker. >>>> >>>> mu'o >>>> >>> --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/lo= jban/-/-zJ25Ymxw20J. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den. ------=_Part_259_26855769.1354440748485 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

On Sunday, December 2, 2012 1:10:34 AM UTC+4, vruxir wrote:Earlier today I was having a technical= issue with translating -- basically, after editing and saving a "message" = in the translation interface, a dialog box would pop up with a "tpt-unknown= -page" error. However, now the problem has disappeared and translating work= s again, so I'm not sure what caused it.

Another problem= , as I try to add a new page, is that I can't upload images (specifically, = I'm trying to add standard Wikimedia message box images, such as the "!" in= formation bubble and a pencil-and-paper icon). Upon clicking the "Upload" b= utton at the bottom, I get:

Upload Warning: C= ould not create directory "mwstore://local-backend/local-public/7/7e".=

Many people seem to think that it's a problem wit= h folder write permissions. There is discussion here: http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Thread= :Project:Support_desk/Trouble_uploading_after_installation


The fact is that those d= irectories have already been 777-ised. Earlier we could upload images. I re= ally don't know what happened.
 
(The same type of error message came= up for both .svg and .png files.)

mu'o

On = Saturday, December 1, 2012 4:34:58 AM UTC-5, la gleki wrote:


On Saturday, December 1, 2012 1:18:15 PM U= TC+4, iesk wrote:
Le samedi 1 d=E9ce= mbre 2012 01:03:26 UTC+1, entot a =E9crit :
It's not a question of if the default language is English= or not. It's a question of whether we present a Lojban-only page to a newc= omer. I think showing a Lojbanic interface and Lojban-only content to a new= comer is not friendly.
(I guess its 'friendlier' tha= n piping interested people through English when it isn't necessary.)
&nb= sp;

If the= primary language is Lojban, are you, doi la gleki. .e la .iesk., fine with= importing all the pages from TWiki to LMW? Lots of them are in English.

Since I have so far not contributed anything usefu= l to LMW, my opinion does not weigh much.

I repeat that my idea of t= he wiki was that there be no 'primary language' for content pages. Everybod= y would write pages in the language(s) of their preference. I don't think i= t likely that there will be systematic translations of all LMW pages in all= LMW languages (whichever that may be). Most content will probably be in En= glish anyway (TWiki imports included), who would translate all that stuff? = So why not have a page in, say, French, link to relevant pages in, say, Eng= lish, Lojban, =85  I have been arguing *against* any primary language,= because that would, to my understanding, mean that you have to write (or w= ait for somebody to write) a page about 'broda' in the primary language bef= ore you can add a page about 'broda' in the language that you want.

Unfortunately I have no idea of a mechan= ism of creating a wiki without any primary language. And LMW is after all a= linguistic project. The core of Lojbanistan is Lojban which is a language.= Anyway LMW-contributors must know at least some basic lojban. This will be= enough to create new pages in simple lojban first and then creating it's "= translation" in another language e.g. English.

= UPDATE:
I already noticed first attempts of spamming in LMW f= rom anonymous users. Threrefore
ConfirmEdit extension installed to preve= nt spamming. ReCaptcha mode activated for new users. It makes us dependent = on third-party ReCaptcha service, but it's the simplest solution.



 

ni'o

I'm holding off any work I said or hi= nted I'd be doing (working on the community portal and migrating) until I g= et a clear picture of what the site organization is going to be [1]:
<= div>
* Who is the target audience?
* What content w= ill it have, in what language?

As far as I underst= and, there are two interests at hand:

* Target aud= ience: Lojban speakers
* Content: Anything in Lojban? / Translati= on projects, Lojbanic writings, Lojbanists index

*= Target audience: Lojban learners
* Content: Learning materials i= n English and other languages around the world

I= na=EFvely thought of a home for all things Lojbanic. ;)
 

If this is the cas= e, I think it's not out of the question to maintain two separate wikis for = each: lojban.org and ckule.lojban.org. I= n MediaWiki, there is a way to share the extensions folder and such to less= en the admininstrative task. If there are corresponding pages between the t= wo, they can be linked to each other in the way Wikipedia links pages in ot= her languages.

Any thoughts?

<= div>[1] This is partly an excuse to focus my time on helping CLL1.1; I'm no= t a good multitasker.

mu'o

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/lojban/-/-z= J25Ymxw20J.
=20 To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den.
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