Received: from mail-yh0-f61.google.com ([209.85.213.61]:52003) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1Th38f-0005jA-Cs; Fri, 07 Dec 2012 10:59:21 -0800 Received: by mail-yh0-f61.google.com with SMTP id o21sf433395yho.16 for ; Fri, 07 Dec 2012 10:59:03 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=20120806; h=x-beenthere:date:from:to:message-id:in-reply-to:references:subject :mime-version:x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=0vCBeigKJYhCt/29hIhQfDGRmmcmbmrTmx4MaM2vurA=; b=ZfaFxcBVsh28S/M39pBI7j+uisgmWSh96AMzE+gnf6fg/gVE0SCJ69qDNBLwL24+oW 5PGdLGK5tfNIo+ZS9W1jIaN++3CdkIMaTiPz0HaDcvQj+OGuvuiOEvsoysTbTa9UVOof gUks7T/sAaJjjMtQhKKkZ3p1EfwZYudYupJ+nwHLjQMYAMIjBYhOxgnjto3ohY3nLoAR gEnuftb2mJfUVTf2IDEP1C6ikdlapijCOjku4jBRyWGa7HFJRTF3YArJOPnX8P6sYvHr M8yvOZYZcdlu3Ou/5sQ3cf1e+bPD10zDXR3Jhj143rpZ5ZmcStPy3Y97EXO/JYiz4USF Q1FQ== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=x-beenthere:date:from:to:message-id:in-reply-to:references:subject :mime-version:x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=0vCBeigKJYhCt/29hIhQfDGRmmcmbmrTmx4MaM2vurA=; b=yhfpwr/kFF0neBgt0c9Q6tzefZDCkcAicc3hjuqT8sFTPuq9KfFmWT/1bDfPA6O/BF I3aBkUF3Ra1/K4D24KMVg8oTXo0HnbD0AnSX6gO15te/yQBR6DRiLG0lOVyepiZjrTzW 3iDp+eqik63Qaw0Xst+lHrGAIsCkT+3UzgBu3hzAMWDjifvgvUfUE+Vg2FLNmyVJzQGV f27KTiHOGDPBooR7AusP+AF37LuNgh/s6cyABapEuT1abOzc+i7W46HLjI9W9wexFMSB EGx8jeka5stWxUhOnzKkawjFpyiBQ0SXi3WCq+SFhM2EdS9SbESzWnXqe7vWFWKqlyRa ONgQ== Received: by 10.49.62.164 with SMTP id z4mr1424782qer.34.1354906742816; Fri, 07 Dec 2012 10:59:02 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.49.0.84 with SMTP id 20ls418306qec.58.gmail; Fri, 07 Dec 2012 10:59:01 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.49.58.238 with SMTP id u14mr1430447qeq.13.1354906741684; Fri, 07 Dec 2012 10:59:01 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2012 10:59:01 -0800 (PST) From: la gleki To: lojban@googlegroups.com Message-Id: <21176855-78da-404c-9116-82137e6a24f8@googlegroups.com> In-Reply-To: References: <00e7c936-0171-4993-879a-319416b83212@googlegroups.com> Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: Elementary-particle physics. Glossary. Work in progress... MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Original-Sender: gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_369_18277631.1354906741274" X-Spam-Score: -0.1 (/) X-Spam_score: -0.1 X-Spam_score_int: 0 X-Spam_bar: / ------=_Part_369_18277631.1354906741274 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Friday, December 7, 2012 10:24:04 PM UTC+4, Latro wrote: > > The semantics of the natural language words are rather complicated, and= =20 > discussing them thoroughly in their common Lojban name would require=20 > essentially discussing a large chunk of the Standard Model whenever=20 > discussing quarks or basic particle physics. This would be analogous to= =20 > always using IUPAC or SMILES notation to describe chemical names, except= =20 > even worse. There's a reason natlangs use common names! > > That said, I am skeptical as to whether we even need in-language technica= l=20 > jargon like this. Many natlangs don't have it and instead rely on English= =20 > or similar intermediate languages for such purposes already. > I relied on English because 99% of all articles on this topic is written in= =20 English. So it can be the only source. Mandarin uses =E5=A4=B8=E5=85=8B (ku=C4=81k=C3=A8) for "quark" i.e. also tr= ies to borrow an English=20 term. May be nobody has noticed but I've taken this table from Ithkuil lexicon. Of course we could create a bunch of new gismu, create lujvo out of them=20 and use that as the author of Ithkuil suggests. I don't need such complicated things. If Lojban had been created in 18 century nobody would have added {se ratni}= =20 to it's definition. And no one knows what will happen with future theories= =20 of physics. If someone can order those particles according to their nature and=20 therefore create appropriate lujvo.... heh, well, I'll become a fan of this= =20 person. But.... ju'o lo po'o cevni ku djuno =20 > > mu'o mi'e la latro'a > > On Fri, Dec 7, 2012 at 12:25 PM, shanoxilt > > wrote: > >> >> >> On Friday, December 7, 2012 9:54:04 AM UTC-5, la gleki wrote: >>> >>> *Atom* >>> =20 >>> atom >>> =20 >>> ratni >>> =20 >>> atomic nucleus >>> =20 >>> ratnymidju >>> =20 >>> nuclide (i.e., specific configuration of Z-value, N-value, and energy= =20 >>> state for a particular atomic nucleus) >>> =20 >>> =20 >>> =20 >>> atomic electron cloud >>> =20 >>> lektonydilnu >>> =20 >>> orbital state (i.e., state and behavior of an electron based on its=20 >>> orbital probability distribution) >>> =20 >>> lektonydilnu tcini >>> =20 >>> behavioral state/effect of atomic electron cloud, i.e., photon-mediated= =20 >>> attractive force (Coulomb force) >>> =20 >>> lektonydilnu se rinka >>> =20 >>> isotone >>> =20 >>> mintu sekai lo ka lo nurtoni poi cmima lo se rutni be ce=E2=80=99u >>> =20 >>> isobar >>> =20 >>> mintu teryratni >>> =20 >>> nuclear isomer / nuclear energy state >>> =20 >>> stodyfrica rutni / frica fi loka nejni lo ka stodi / mintu sekai lo ka= =20 >>> rutni ce=E2=80=99u ce=E2=80=99u??? >>> =20 >>> stable nuclide >>> =20 >>> =20 >>> =20 >>> isotope >>> =20 >>> mintu selyratni >>> =20 >>> ground state of nuclide >>> =20 >>> =20 >>> =20 >>> excited state or nuclide >>> =20 >>> =20 >>> =20 >>> mirror nucleus >>> =20 >>> =20 >>> =20 >>> unstable/radioactive/radionuclide >>> =20 >>> =20 >>> =20 >>> *Particles* >>> =20 >>> fermion >>> =20 >>> fermioni >>> =20 >>> anti-fermion >>> =20 >>> tolfermioni >>> =20 >>> boson >>> =20 >>> jbozoni >>> =20 >>> boson. fundamental =E2=80=9Cforce=E2=80=9D (e.g., electromagnetism, str= ong, weak,=20 >>> gravity, dark energy) >>> =20 >>> jbozoni nu vlipa >>> =20 >>> quark >>> =20 >>> kuarko >>> =20 >>> anti-quark >>> =20 >>> tolkuarko >>> =20 >>> =E2=80=9Cstring=E2=80=9D (from string theory) >>> =20 >>> stringo >>> =20 >>> vibration of =E2=80=9Cstring=E2=80=9D (from string theory) >>> =20 >>> stringo nu vlipa >>> =20 >>> lepton >>> =20 >>> leptoni >>> =20 >>> anti-lepton >>> =20 >>> tolyleptoni >>> =20 >>> acceleron (hypothetical particle associated with theories of dark=20 >>> energy)=20 >>> =20 >>> akceleroni >>> =20 >>> dark energy (i.e., counter-gravitational =E2=80=9Cforce=E2=80=9D that i= s accelerating=20 >>> the expansion of the universe >>> =20 >>> akceleroni nejni/nu vlipa >>> =20 >>> *quark=E2=80=99s =E2=80=9Cflavor=E2=80=9D and =E2=80=9Ccolor=E2=80=9D* >>> =20 >>> up >>> =20 >>> galtu >>> =20 >>> charm=20 >>> =20 >>> semanci >>> =20 >>> top >>> =20 >>> galtytraji >>> =20 >>> red >>> =20 >>> xunre >>> =20 >>> green >>> =20 >>> crino >>> =20 >>> blue >>> =20 >>> blanu >>> =20 >>> bottom >>> =20 >>> dizlytraji >>> =20 >>> strange >>> =20 >>> cizra >>> =20 >>> down >>> =20 >>> dizlo >>> =20 >>> *the particular type of lepton (or anti-lepton):* >>> =20 >>> muon >>> =20 >>> cmuioni >>> =20 >>> charged lepton (i.e., non-neutrino lepton) >>> =20 >>> =20 >>> =20 >>> tau lepton, tauon >>> =20 >>> ctauoni >>> =20 >>> electron >>> =20 >>> lektoni >>> =20 >>> electron neutrino >>> =20 >>> leknurtini >>> =20 >>> muon neutrino >>> =20 >>> cmunurtini >>> =20 >>> tau neutrino >>> =20 >>> ctanurtini >>> =20 >>> neutrino (i.e., any of the three types) >>> =20 >>> nurtini >>> =20 >>> *the particular type of boson and/or its associated interaction or=20 >>> =E2=80=9Cforce=E2=80=9D :* >>> =20 >>> graviton/gravity=20 >>> =20 >>> gravitoni >>> =20 >>> weak gauge boson (i.e., either the W+, the W-, or the Z) / the weak=20 >>> interaction or force=20 >>> =20 >>> uigbozoni >>> =20 >>> photon [as associated with electrical phenomenon] / electricity=20 >>> =20 >>> gusnioni >>> =20 >>> W+ boson / the weak interaction or force as mediated by the W+ boson=20 >>> (use PLV1/1 suffix to indicate the W- boson) >>> =20 >>> =20 >>> =20 >>> photon / electromagnetism >>> =20 >>> =20 >>> =20 >>> Z-zero boson / the weak interaction or force as mediated by the Z-zero= =20 >>> boson =20 >>> =20 >>> nonbozoni >>> =20 >>> Higgs boson / Higgs mechanism =20 >>> =20 >>> xigzoni >>> =20 >>> gluon / the strong interaction or color force=20 >>> =20 >>> gluioni >>> =20 >>> *the supersymetrical partner of the particular particle (i.e., its=20 >>> =E2=80=9Csparticle=E2=80=9D counterpart)* >>> =20 >>> Supersymmetry >>> =20 >>> trajylanxyvelminra >>> =20 >>> photino >>> =20 >>> gusniino >>> =20 >>> gluino >>> =20 >>> gluiino >>> =20 >>> gravitino >>> =20 >>> gravitino >>> =20 >>> slepton >>> =20 >>> leptiino >>> =20 >>> squark >>> =20 >>> kuarkiino >>> =20 >>> sneutrino >>> =20 >>> nurtiino >>> =20 >>> =20 >>> >> .i'e nai The section about quark teminology is just a direct translation= =20 >> of the English words!=20 >> >> We need Lojban terms that describe what these properties are/do, not=20 >> arbitrary words ripped from natural languages. >> =20 >> >> --=20 >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Group= s=20 >> "lojban" group. >> To view this discussion on the web visit=20 >> https://groups.google.com/d/msg/lojban/-/ratWwei-l9QJ. >> >> To post to this group, send email to loj...@googlegroups.com >> . >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to=20 >> lojban+un...@googlegroups.com . >> For more options, visit this group at=20 >> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den. >> > > --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/lo= jban/-/oCVBP7bT5M4J. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den. ------=_Part_369_18277631.1354906741274 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

On Friday, December 7, 2012 10:24:04 PM UTC+4, Latro wrote:The semantics of the natural language = words are rather complicated, and discussing them thoroughly in their commo= n Lojban name would require essentially discussing a large chunk of the Sta= ndard Model whenever discussing quarks or basic particle physics. This woul= d be analogous to always using IUPAC or SMILES notation to describe chemica= l names, except even worse. There's a reason natlangs use common names!

That said, I am skeptical as to whether we even need in-language techni= cal jargon like this. Many natlangs don't have it and instead rely on Engli= sh or similar intermediate languages for such purposes already.

I relied on English because 99% of all articles on= this topic is written in English. So it can be the only source.
Mandari= n uses =E5=A4=B8=E5=85=8B (ku=C4=81k=C3=A8) for "quark" i.e. also tries to = borrow an English term.

May be nobody has noticed = but I've taken this table from Ithkuil lexicon.
Of course we coul= d create a bunch of new gismu, create lujvo out of them and use that as the= author of Ithkuil suggests.
I don't need such complicated things= .

If Lojban had been created in 18 century nobody = would have added {se ratni} to it's definition. And no one knows what will = happen with future theories of physics.

If someone= can order those particles according to their nature and therefore create a= ppropriate lujvo.... heh, well, I'll become a fan of this person. But....ju'o lo po'o cevni ku djuno

 

mu'o mi'e la latro'a

On Fri, Dec 7, 2= 012 at 12:25 PM, shanoxilt <osiris_hade...@= hotmail.com> wrote:


On Friday, December 7, 201= 2 9:54:04 AM UTC-5, la gleki wrote:

Atom

atom

ratni

atomic nucleus

ratnymidju

nuclide (i.e., specific configuration of Z-value, = N-value, and energy state for a particular atomic nucleus)

 

atomic electron cloud

lektonydilnu

orbital state (i.e., state and behavior of an elec= tron based on its orbital probability distribution)

lektonydilnu tcini

behavioral state/effect of atomic electron cloud, = i.e., photon-mediated attractive force (Coulomb force)

lektonydilnu se rinka

isotone

mintu sekai lo ka lo nurtoni poi cmima lo se rutni= be ce=E2=80=99u

isobar

mintu teryratni

nuclear isomer / nuclear energy state

stodyfrica rutni / frica fi loka nejni lo ka stodi= / mintu sekai lo ka rutni ce=E2=80=99u ce=E2=80=99u???

stable nuclide

 

isotope

mintu selyratni

ground state of nuclide

 

excited state or nuclide

 

mirror nucleus

 

unstable/radioactive/radionuclide

 

Particles

fermion

fermioni

anti-fermion

tolfermioni

boson

jbozoni

boson. fundamental =E2=80=9Cforce=E2=80=9D (e.g., electromagnetism, strong, weak, gravity, d= ark energy)

jbozoni nu vlipa

quark

kuarko

anti-quark

tolkuarko

=E2=80=9Cstring=E2=80=9D (from string theory)

stringo

vibration of =E2=80=9Cstring=E2=80=9D (from string= theory)

stringo nu vlipa

lepton

leptoni

anti-lepton

tolyleptoni

acceleron (hypothetical particle associated with t= heories of dark energy)

akceleroni

dark energy (i.e., counter-gravitational =E2=80=9C= force=E2=80=9D that is accelerating the expansion of the universe

akceleroni nejni/nu vlipa

qu= ark=E2=80=99s =E2=80=9Cflavor=E2=80=9D and =E2=80=9Ccolor=E2=80=9D

up

galtu

charm

semanci

top

galtytraji

red

xunre

green

crino

blue

blanu

bottom

dizlytraji

strange

cizra

down

dizlo

th= e particular type of lepton (or anti-lepton):

muon

cmuioni

charged lepton (i.e., non-neutrino lepton)

 

tau lepton, tauon

ctauoni

electron

lektoni

electron neutrino

leknurtini

muon neutrino

cmunurtini

tau neutrino

ctanurtini

neutrino (i.e., any of the three types)

nurtini

th= e particular type of boson and/or its associated interaction or =E2=80=9Cforce=E2=80=9D :

graviton/gravity

gravitoni

weak gauge boson (i.e., either the W+, the W-, or = the Z) / the weak interaction or force

uigbozoni

photon [as associated with electrical phenomenon] = / electricity

gusnioni

W+ boson / the weak interaction or force as mediat= ed by the W+ boson (use PLV1/1 suffix to indicate the W- boson)

 

photon / electromagnetism

 

Z-zero boson / the weak interaction or force as me= diated by the Z-zero boson 

nonbozoni

Higgs boson / Higgs mechanism 

xigzoni

gluon / the strong interaction or color force

gluioni

th= e supersymetrical partner of the particular particle (i.e., its =E2=80=9Csparticle=E2=80=9D counterpart)

Supersymmetry

trajylanxyvelminra

photino

gusniino

gluino

gluiino

gravitino

gravitino

slepton

leptiino

squark

kuarkiino

sneutrino

nurtiino

 

<= /div>
.i'e nai The section about quark teminology is just a direc= t translation of the English words!

We need Lojba= n terms that describe what these properties are/do, not arbitrary words rip= ped from natural languages.
 

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group.
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=20 To post to this group, send email to loj...@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+un...@googl= egroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/= lojban?hl=3Den.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group.
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