Received: from mail-qc0-f189.google.com ([209.85.216.189]:51288) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1Tlopp-000786-Cr; Thu, 20 Dec 2012 14:43:59 -0800 Received: by mail-qc0-f189.google.com with SMTP id c11sf1969584qca.6 for ; Thu, 20 Dec 2012 14:43:18 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=20120806; h=x-received:x-beenthere:x-received:x-received:x-received :received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id :subject:from:to:x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results :reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id:x-google-group-id :list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=gwBeDP4+nqasUGMdYR5pKVQpNknXfHHDpfc1Odfargs=; b=L3XlVCJRjnIlvmwB/SYwkXS0Yj+OaRmFvrnQByIxmMC+IQ+jHdcWJDu9Rr1Q2EBpHk yXv4K1/k/ITPj0y1pj+NIfWyMfIGMCyRb7RwIIkV+GBfJGqSsCpkw68/DZrhdQ8kbOqG izH2qIIv8pY/tlp0nMbPUrN2msn5LaWLNMPy1MdT754ztr/FG+OYKpYhDMXoKF2GvMdd e+p3Dgaq37uCQKOIcd2/hPAA55iDilYMMwqPrsjE5WcePtZGfleaYrTzsSQ/K2J3aG1k QS29vK3jVYxXxe1efnhzB+NnIwdvkH8JgA18xKgfwOtwEDbVxvQkO2X9yLvITlDwC02d QumA== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=x-received:x-beenthere:x-received:x-received:x-received :received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id :subject:from:to:x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results :reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id:x-google-group-id :list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=gwBeDP4+nqasUGMdYR5pKVQpNknXfHHDpfc1Odfargs=; b=ZQo+Tu8EmLzRtDwzA8anD0op2Hmi7NXZ2hTxLWEkjSS7NkWevn+ODRkA+6pLM32U92 5YcAKeyYg27UzTWsEeA3KBrUQ8mLy3lq1ZVBwT2f7tEwmLJ3Ps3HGOsELgZbnNgAe1aN QG6CluJv/QzqHcHXPkIWuHFSMwZMlIhXO9vap9GDDrDL9RrEMbh92qy1KBHCr+Bd3Ba2 g1iYbwvy4UiYJUK71ERw5ER6QY5MYIht/BsoBH4xLlLssVdGd9x6KnLayI8U736eyQTI cnF+grOA9e/OVjiUWsQFFv2EPTc5G1tGiN2pa62ZCcjVomp/P0yCl2mAGiNUpq1vHyjU E/HQ== X-Received: by 10.49.75.9 with SMTP id y9mr1647994qev.9.1356043397897; Thu, 20 Dec 2012 14:43:17 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.49.87.135 with SMTP id ay7ls1415590qeb.8.gmail; Thu, 20 Dec 2012 14:43:16 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.224.180.141 with SMTP id bu13mr5375960qab.2.1356043396495; Thu, 20 Dec 2012 14:43:16 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.224.89.18 with SMTP id c18msqam; Wed, 19 Dec 2012 08:51:28 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.52.73.1 with SMTP id h1mr2277056vdv.2.1355935888549; Wed, 19 Dec 2012 08:51:28 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.52.73.1 with SMTP id h1mr2277055vdv.2.1355935888532; Wed, 19 Dec 2012 08:51:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-vc0-f182.google.com (mail-vc0-f182.google.com [209.85.220.182]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id ca12si1829815vdb.2.2012.12.19.08.51.28 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Wed, 19 Dec 2012 08:51:28 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of blindbravado@gmail.com designates 209.85.220.182 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.220.182; Received: by mail-vc0-f182.google.com with SMTP id fy27so2562713vcb.13 for ; Wed, 19 Dec 2012 08:51:28 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.220.151.142 with SMTP id c14mr9721357vcw.16.1355935888347; Wed, 19 Dec 2012 08:51:28 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.220.13.197 with HTTP; Wed, 19 Dec 2012 08:51:28 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <275c5760-c5b6-4a1b-b017-e4951c6c5201@googlegroups.com> References: <7b7faaa6-6b15-4bde-ada9-d37e2d99ce18@googlegroups.com> <275c5760-c5b6-4a1b-b017-e4951c6c5201@googlegroups.com> Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2012 11:51:28 -0500 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: Letters simulation by lojban vision! From: Ian Johnson To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: blindbravado@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of blindbravado@gmail.com designates 209.85.220.182 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=blindbravado@gmail.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=f46d043be06af690d904d1376c09 X-Spam-Score: -0.1 (/) X-Spam_score: -0.1 X-Spam_score_int: 0 X-Spam_bar: / --f46d043be06af690d904d1376c09 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Have you looked at http://www.lojban.org/tiki/wavelessonscontinued , which is now the recommended learning material? While I had a background in predicate logic before coming to Lojban, I find your claim to be patently false. In particular I find that even the CLL, which is a very poor learning material in the first place, assumes no background in predicate logic, even though it would be somewhat easier to read that way. The WLC is far better in this regard, albeit a little bit incomplete. mu'o mi'e la latro'a On Tue, Dec 18, 2012 at 11:02 AM, Adam Chevalier wrote: > The IPA is confusing and most people looking at it won't know how to read > it. > However, I do not advocate the creation of another standard notation. > Either way, its one more thing someone must learn before learning lojban. > The simpler the learning of lojban is the better. > > As it stands, prospective jbopre must obtain some sense of predicate logic > before lojban makes any sense (and the current learning materials make no > effort to help people who do not have a background in math or CS to learn > these concepts). > > > On Sunday, December 16, 2012 4:52:06 AM UTC-6, aionys wrote: > >> Again. Isn't that what the IPA is for? >> >> On Sun, Dec 16, 2012 at 3:20 AM, la ki'es-di'es wrote: >> >>> Greeting, >>> >>> I was very busy last period... >>> >>> In fact I discussed the subject much but there is some difference and a >>> lot of benefits. >>> >>> I send previously file about that but may need some improvement. >>> >>> We must realizes this fact, that there is two type of knowledge: >>> >>> (1) depened on the person itself can improve by intelligence exercises, >>> and be for accidental events and its rules attempet to deal an infinity >>> random events almost. >>> (2) depened on people expereince in life you can't obtain it by yourself >>> you will learn that continiously from others and we called it the wisdom >>> and usualy attempt to take all probabilities. >>> >>> Every one have a lot to talk and every thing extend to infinity. >>> >>> e.g: may R italian is the inverse of r english but french r is the >>> inverse of like A in arabic word Ali, and so on we should take all >>> probabilities. >>> >>> la'o mu''ymyd-nuuR byRuk >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "lojban" group. >>> To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/** >>> msg/lojban/-/HeXNJJZv8ToJ >>> . >>> >>> To post to this group, send email to loj...@googlegroups.com. >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+un...@** >>> googlegroups.com. >>> >>> For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/** >>> group/lojban?hl=en . >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> mu'o mi'e .aionys. >> >> .i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o >> (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D ) >> >> -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "lojban" group. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msg/lojban/-/RlFl5_3TiF8J. > > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. --f46d043be06af690d904d1376c09 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Have you looked at http://www.lojban.org/tiki/wavelessonscontinued , which is now the = recommended learning material? While I had a background in predicate logic = before coming to Lojban, I find your claim to be patently false. In particu= lar I find that even the CLL, which is a very poor learning material in the= first place, assumes no background in predicate logic, even though it woul= d be somewhat easier to read that way. The WLC is far better in this regard= , albeit a little bit incomplete.

mu'o mi'e la latro'a

On T= ue, Dec 18, 2012 at 11:02 AM, Adam Chevalier <chevalieradam2@gmail= .com> wrote:
The IPA is confusing and most people looking= at it won't know how to read it.
However, I do not advocate the cr= eation of another standard notation. Either way, its one more thing someone= must learn before learning lojban.
The simpler the learning of lojban is the better.

=
As it stands, prospective jbopre must obtain some sense of predicate l= ogic before lojban makes any sense (and the current learning materials make= no effort to help people who do not have a background in math or CS to lea= rn these concepts).


On Sunday, December 16, 2012 4:52:06 AM UTC-6, aionys wrote:
<= blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0;margin-left:0.8ex;border= -left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
Again. Isn't t= hat what the IPA is for?

On Sun, Dec 16, 2012= at 3:20 AM, la ki'es-di'es <buro...@yahoo.= co.uk> wrote:
Greeting,
=A0
I was very busy last period...
=A0
In fact I discussed the subject much but there is some difference and = a lot of benefits.
=A0
I send previously file about that but may need some improvement.
=A0
We must realizes this=A0fact, th= at there is two type of knowledge:
=A0
(1) depened on the person itself can improve by intelligence exercises= , and be for accidental events and its rules attempet=A0to dea= l an infinity random events almost.
(2) depened on people expereince in life you can't obtain it by yo= urself you will learn that continiously from others and we called it the wi= sdom and usualy attempt to take all probabilities.
=A0
Every one have a lot to talk and every thing extend to infinity.
=A0
e.g: may R italian=A0is the inverse of r english but=A0french r=A0is t= he inverse of like A in arabic word Ali, and so on we should take all proba= bilities.
=A0
la'o mu''ymyd-nuuR byRuk

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &= quot;lojban" group.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com= /d/msg/lojban/-/HeXNJJZv8ToJ.

=20 To post to this group, send email to loj...@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+un...@google= groups.com.

For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/grou= p/lojban?hl=3Den.



--
mu'o mi'e .aionys.

.i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pi= lno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o
(Come to the Dot Side! = Luke, I am your father. :D )

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &= quot;lojban" group.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com= /d/msg/lojban/-/RlFl5_3TiF8J.
=20 To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojba= n?hl=3Den.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group.
To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den.
--f46d043be06af690d904d1376c09--