Received: from mail-qc0-f189.google.com ([209.85.216.189]:53761) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1TmK6C-0003Kz-RM; Sat, 22 Dec 2012 00:06:44 -0800 Received: by mail-qc0-f189.google.com with SMTP id c11sf2586592qca.26 for ; Sat, 22 Dec 2012 00:06:18 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=20120806; h=x-received:x-beenthere:x-received:date:from:to:message-id :in-reply-to:references:subject:mime-version:x-original-sender :reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id:x-google-group-id :list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=j1/TfXMH0WMY9nh6ikAsGtKZ0r8ERH2E2VG1Yu385VE=; b=oi9dMsBxJxt+tqtpXVu/hWIx8Fzpyo/nP0KN/rwhHba93Ks3PNDEK7kTw/fVuS+VjS 7o2glp97rJ1uNB/ethZsgFW51cGFjr0aF6LRs7uTnv+DFXm4J01uHoemY7m0fEy5aAWK P/pBYbcPq/Cgsrxpp3mqhOA9y1adZ4MdtEjaW00RbW4Prb2XwyW8D819I01DggpsrVp3 dGONRMySK739l/AAcA8bT8qacKvlMUHOn0xHqx9VlhBghYxMUyETJoxzq32swRV9gV6/ PTHmZYA2lXATFHn3w/guwXZ0QtgZXD523dSUT1i+vjJX0avWL8nyyAKhcBYxSQGy+lYo MMPg== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=x-received:x-beenthere:x-received:date:from:to:message-id :in-reply-to:references:subject:mime-version:x-original-sender :reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id:x-google-group-id :list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=j1/TfXMH0WMY9nh6ikAsGtKZ0r8ERH2E2VG1Yu385VE=; b=vdxjBP7ck8juSdvYWZSjZ5hCXT3+MUKShc/BcokXRuvtGZ1pSWZIrBdP9z8VUWm55g PC/ODbefYr0AHw5lsU8OZ//BxDyUtW/OsvuMlcgaW4tHawHKu99of77GmeTnlsahYoak Zz+PVrgLpDK0mSatjlgOVPlHoVstie+H5E9fTm+8RNGDMzb++Wer1XalQOI0fHgOO/fK plEQHchXqoiP49m3w/FkXSFIwS+n0TARtI6KSbTp4/fcCbWUNWxQo8wxdber8DOTRmpR 2o3znC4nH3L0VnfQUEtRJTvafb3GWtXy8s0FN+wZckbKUb3TypPGOM8B9R/qcjJ5s5Fn 1mLg== X-Received: by 10.49.94.129 with SMTP id dc1mr2382204qeb.22.1356163578126; Sat, 22 Dec 2012 00:06:18 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.49.35.169 with SMTP id i9ls2221185qej.42.gmail; Sat, 22 Dec 2012 00:06:17 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.49.12.238 with SMTP id b14mr2378308qec.18.1356163577246; Sat, 22 Dec 2012 00:06:17 -0800 (PST) Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2012 00:06:16 -0800 (PST) From: la gleki To: lojban@googlegroups.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <233e1975-456c-4f5e-98e0-1cd828f006dd@googlegroups.com> References: <98ac3a8c-7f91-4049-a8ee-128f9a947671@googlegroups.com> <60b24557-d28a-4330-91e2-4fa350f35cbd@googlegroups.com> <6cb197db-5690-48fb-8a88-3e633bb6f94b@googlegroups.com> <285a3908-97fd-4231-8767-479dd0779da8@googlegroups.com> <20121113171712.GG22972@sunflowerriver.org> <699d8b9d-2f04-4a0a-b2cf-a9f498ac19fd@googlegroups.com> <20121113194725.GL22972@sunflowerriver.org> <7c389416-3ceb-4d21-9b6b-e4e1cb5d312f@googlegroups.com> <2d4db499-3585-4456-b7c7-6a6846d6bcee@googlegroups.com> <038dbeba-5a17-46c0-a904-9a09a765fff0@googlegroups.com> <95cc510f-649e-4b3c-b3b8-fd5ebed42fcc@googlegroups.com> <344a8d7e-dd22-4d1c-ad65-e7284c4d913a@googlegroups.com> <13381863-cf1e-44d0-a5a8-d68d3b38b45e@googlegroups.com> <00f31542-0cb2-467a-9078-97357b390e33@googlegroups.com> <39510bbc-cf54-4073-95ab-b3648dd182c3@googlegroups.com> <233e1975-456c-4f5e-98e0-1cd828f006dd@googlegroups.com> Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: A new Lojbanic wiki (LMW). On the threshold of the 25th anniversary of Lojban MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Original-Sender: gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_178_9762357.1356163576700" X-Spam-Score: -0.1 (/) X-Spam_score: -0.1 X-Spam_score_int: 0 X-Spam_bar: / ------=_Part_178_9762357.1356163576700 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 LMW. The current vision. Who, stereotypically, will visit the wiki page? I want ordinary people from all over the world to visit it as opposed to the old one for geeks. Therefore, just anyone with no experience in linguistics/programming/logic. Imagine tokipona users. Or imagine children Right now the main page is very factual. Obviously it just the content from the old wiki. But this audience, they want to see Lojban right away. Here it, experience it. Like a big "coi do fi'i" banner. We should provide a lot of supporting english/mandarin/etc. and comfort, because the first time a new user sees Lojban they're going to be intimidated and afraid of it. And they're going to want comfort and translation and joy in seeing something and knowing what it means. May be a menu (instead of this ralju ckupau) where users can choose their language? Like here http://www.wikipedia.org/? What is your opinion, friends? If you are ready to show us something please do that in the wiki itself by creating other test pages with your experiments. Relinking the default LMW page to yours won't be a problem once we agree how to present Lojban for masses. On Monday, December 17, 2012 9:21:01 PM UTC+4, vruxir wrote: > > ki'e gleki .i ku'i za'o simlu lo ka spofu .i sa'e za'o cusku la'o gy. HTTP > Error 500 gy. ca lo nu mi troci co rejgau lo ckupau > > Thanks, gleki, but it still seems to be broken. It's still saying "HTTP > Error 500" when I try to save a page containing a widget invocation code. > > mu'o mi'e .vruxir. > > On Monday, December 17, 2012 11:57:40 AM UTC-5, la gleki wrote: >> >> >> >> On Friday, December 14, 2012 11:41:26 PM UTC+4, la gleki wrote: >>> >>> Also, the $IP/extensions/Widgets/compiled_templates/ folder should be >>> made writable by the web server. See Making a directory writable by the >>> webserver. >>> The compiled templates folder is where Smarty stores pre-compiled templates. >>> >>> ^ ^ I can't do that. Waiting for Robin to reply (privately, not here) >>> >> >> Robin hasnt replied yet. So i just patched Widgets extension and changed >> the path from "$IP/extensions/Widgets/compiled_templates/" to " >> $IP/htmlets/" >> >> Check whether you can use Widgets now. >> >> >>> On Friday, December 14, 2012 11:33:31 PM UTC+4, vruxir wrote: >>>> >>>> Well, I was able to create widgets in the Widget:* namespace. However, >>>> when I add widget code to an article (something along the lines of >>>> "{{#widget:Google Maps|...|...}}"), I can't preview or save the page that I >>>> am editing; the server returns a "500" error. >>>> >>>> The same problem occurred with Widget:Google Maps and Widget:YouTube, >>>> so I don't think it's a problem with the widget source code. When a page >>>> *doesn't* contain the {{#widget:...}} code, it saves without any >>>> trouble. >>>> >>>> The 500 error doesn't give any specific information for me, so I don't >>>> know what causes it. There might be a problem with folder write >>>> permissions, but otherwise I couldn't get any useful information from a >>>> Google search. >>>> >>>> mu'o mi'e .vruxir. >>>> >>>> >>> >>>> On Friday, December 14, 2012 1:49:04 PM UTC-5, la gleki wrote: >>>>> >>>>> *UPDATE. >>>>> *Widgets 1.9.2 (http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Widget) >>>>> extension installed. >>>>> See http://mw.lojban.org/index.php/Special:Version >>>>> >>>>> Plese, check if you can use it to embed Google maps etc. >>>>> >>>>> *BTW how to say "update", "version" and "synchronise" in Lojban????* >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Saturday, December 8, 2012 9:41:35 AM UTC+4, la gleki wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Saturday, December 8, 2012 12:13:38 AM UTC+4, vruxir wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> .u'u >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Apparently that didn't work the way I thought it would work. Now >>>>>>> it's back to showing the reCAPTCHA on edits to translations for some >>>>>>> reason, and triggering the "Saving failed" popup. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Here are the pages that led me to believe it would work: >>>>>>> http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:ConfirmEdit (talks about >>>>>>> the $wgCaptchaTriggersOnNamespace variable) >>>>>>> http: >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> //www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension_default_namespaces (says >>>>>>> the default namespace for "Translations:" is NS_TRANSLATIONS) >>>>>>> >>>>>>> If you can't think of a reason why it didn't work, I guess we should >>>>>>> revert back to $wgCaptchaTriggers['edit'] = false; >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> *UPDATE.* >>>>>> $wgCaptchaTriggers['edit'] = false; >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> Another option would be to only require reCAPTCHA for anonymous >>>>>>> edits. >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> how to do that? >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> mu'o mi'e .vruxir. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Friday, December 7, 2012 2:54:15 PM UTC-5, la gleki wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> *UPDATE.* >>>>>>>> The following strings have been changed to: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> $wgCaptchaTriggers['edit'] = true; >>>>>>>> $wgCaptchaTriggersOnNamespace[NS_TRANSLATIONS]['edit'] = false; >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> to ki'e doi vruxir toi >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Friday, December 7, 2012 11:29:24 PM UTC+4, vruxir wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> It also looks like you can do this: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> $wgCaptchaTriggers['edit'] = true; >>>>>>>>> $wgCaptchaTriggersOnNamespace[NS_TRANSLATIONS]['edit'] = false; >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Then, edits on basic pages will require reCAPTCHA, but edits to >>>>>>>>> translations will not require reCAPTCHA. >>>>>>>>> (To the best of my knowledge, that is what will happen; the Wiki >>>>>>>>> will be slightly more secure that way). >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> mu'o mi'e .vruxir. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Friday, December 7, 2012 1:11:27 AM UTC-5, la gleki wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I changed the value of $wgCaptchaTriggers['edit'] to false. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> The current values are >>>>>>>>>> $wgCaptchaTriggers['edit'] = false; >>>>>>>>>> $wgCaptchaTriggers['create'] = true; >>>>>>>>>> $wgCaptchaTriggers['addurl'] = false; >>>>>>>>>> $wgCaptchaTriggers['createaccount'] = true; >>>>>>>>>> $wgCaptchaTriggers['badlogin'] = true; >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> What needs to be changed or added? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Friday, December 7, 2012 2:53:58 AM UTC+4, guskant wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Dec 7, 2012 at 6:54 AM, vruxir >>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> > I noticed this too. I'm pretty sure it is because of the >>>>>>>>>>> reCAPTCHA. I have >>>>>>>>>>> > been able to work around it by doing this: >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> > Right-click on the link in the first column of the Translation >>>>>>>>>>> Messages >>>>>>>>>>> > table -- for example, the link that looks like >>>>>>>>>>> "Translations:jbobau >>>>>>>>>>> > selci'a/25/en" -- and open the link in a new tab. Then you can >>>>>>>>>>> edit that >>>>>>>>>>> > section of the translation and save the changes (and it will >>>>>>>>>>> show the >>>>>>>>>>> > required reCAPTCHA below the translation after you click "Save >>>>>>>>>>> Page".) >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I got it, thanks! >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> > I hope there is a way to fix that, because editing each >>>>>>>>>>> translation section >>>>>>>>>>> > in a new tab slows things down. The only obvious fix I can >>>>>>>>>>> think of is to >>>>>>>>>>> > disable reCAPTCHA on pages that begin with the prefix >>>>>>>>>>> "Translations:"; >>>>>>>>>>> > hopefully that is possible. >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> > mu'o mi'e .vruxir. >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> > On Thursday, December 6, 2012 4:26:22 PM UTC-5, guskant wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> Translation pages fail in saving. >>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> I go translate a page >>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>> http://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=Special%3ATranslate&taction=translate&group=page-jbobau+selci%27a&language=ja&limit=100&task=view >>>>>>>>>>> >> and edit my translation, but fail in saving. A dialog popups >>>>>>>>>>> and says >>>>>>>>>>> >> "Saving failed. Please report this error." Please fix this >>>>>>>>>>> problem. >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> > -- >>>>>>>>>>> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the >>>>>>>>>>> Google Groups >>>>>>>>>>> > "lojban" group. >>>>>>>>>>> > To view this discussion on the web visit >>>>>>>>>>> > https://groups.google.com/d/msg/lojban/-/QY6eedzR05QJ. >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> > To post to this group, send email to loj...@googlegroups.com. >>>>>>>>>>> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>>>>>>>>> > lojban+un...@googlegroups.com. >>>>>>>>>>> > For more options, visit this group at >>>>>>>>>>> > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/lojban/-/HweOZyKidzsJ. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. ------=_Part_178_9762357.1356163576700 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable LMW. The current vision.
Who, stereotypically, will visit the wiki = page? I want ordinary people from all over the world to visit it as opposed= to the old one for geeks.
Therefore, just anyone with no experie= nce in linguistics/programming/logic.
  
Imag= ine tokipona users. Or imagine children

Right now = the main page i= s very factual. Obviously it just the content from the old wiki.
= But this audience, they want to see Lojban right away. Here it, experience = it.
Like a big "coi do fi'i" banner.
We should prov= ide a lot of supporting english/mandarin/etc. and comfort, because the firs= t time a new user sees Lojban they're going to be intimidated and afraid of= it.
And they're going to want comfort and translation and jo= y in seeing something and knowing what it means.

M= ay be a menu (instead of this ralju ckupau) where users can choose their la= nguage?
Like here http://www.wikipedia.org/?

What is your opinion, friends?

If you are= ready to show us something please do that in the wiki itself by creating o= ther test pages with your experiments. Relinking the default LMW page to yo= urs won't be a problem once we agree how to present Lojban for masses.



On Monday, December 17, 2012 9:21:01 PM = UTC+4, vruxir wrote:
ki'e gleki= .i ku'i za'o simlu lo ka spofu .i sa'e za'o cusku la'o gy. HTTP Error= 500 gy. ca lo nu mi troci co rejgau lo ckupau

Thanks, g= leki, but it still seems to be broken. It's still saying "HTTP Error 500" w= hen I try to save a page containing a widget invocation code.
mu'o mi'e .vruxir.

On Monday, December 17, 2012 11:57:40= AM UTC-5, la gleki wrote:


O= n Friday, December 14, 2012 11:41:26 PM UTC+4, la gleki wrote:

Also, the&n= bsp;$IP/extensions/Widgets/compiled_templates/ folder= should be made writable by the web server. See Making a= directory writable by the webserver. The compiled templates folder is = where Smarty stores pre-compiled templates.


^ ^ I ca= n't do that. Waiting for Robin to reply (privately, not here)

Robin hasnt replied yet. So i just patched Widgets= extension and changed the path from "$IP/extensions/Widgets/compiled_templates/" to "$IP/htmlets/= "

Check whether you can use Widgets now.


On Friday, De= cember 14, 2012 11:33:31 PM UTC+4, vruxir wrote:
Well, I was able to create widgets in the Widget:* namespace. = However, when I add widget code to an article (something along the lines of= "{{#widget:Google Maps|...|...}}"), I can't preview or save the page that = I am editing; the server returns a "500" error.

The same= problem occurred with Widget:Google Maps and Widget:YouTube, so I don't th= ink it's a problem with the widget source code. When a page doesn't&= nbsp;contain the {{#widget:...}} code, it saves without any trouble.
<= div>
The 500 error doesn't give any specific information for = me, so I don't know what causes it. There might be a problem with folder wr= ite permissions, but otherwise I couldn't get any useful information from a= Google search.

mu'o mi'e .vruxir.
 = ;

On Friday, December 14, = 2012 1:49:04 PM UTC-5, la gleki wrote:
UPDATE.
Widgets 1.9.2 (http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Ex= tension:Widget) extension installed.

Ples= e, check if you can use it to embed Google maps etc.

BTW how to say "update", "version" and "synchronise" in Lojban????=


On Saturday, December 8, 2012 9:41:35= AM UTC+4, la gleki wrote:


O= n Saturday, December 8, 2012 12:13:38 AM UTC+4, vruxir wrote:
.u'u

Apparently that didn't wo= rk the way I thought it would work. Now it's back to showing the reCAPTCHA = on edits to translations for some reason, and triggering the "Saving failed= " popup.

Here are the pages that led me to believe= it would work:
http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extensi= on:ConfirmEdit (talks about the $wgCaptchaTriggersOnNamespace vari= able)
 
//www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extensio= n_default_namespaces (says the default namespace for "Transla= tions:" is NS_TRANSLAT= IONS)

If you can't th= ink of a reason why it didn't work, I guess we should revert back to <= /span>$wgCaptchaTriggers['edit'] =3D false;
<= br>
UPDATE. 
$wgCaptchaTriggers['edit'] =3D false;=


A= nother option would be to only require reCAPTCHA for anonymous edits.
=

how to do that?
 

mu'o mi'e .vruxir.<= br>
On Friday, December 7, 2012 2:54:15 PM UTC-5, la gleki wrote:UPDATE.
The following strings ha= ve been changed to:

$wgCaptchaTriggers['edit'] =3D true;
<= div>$wgCaptchaTriggersOnNamespace[NS_TRANSLATIONS]['edit'] =3D false;<= br>
to ki'e doi vruxir toi

On Friday, December 7, 20= 12 11:29:24 PM UTC+4, vruxir wrote:
It also looks like you can do this:

$wgCaptchaTriggers[= 'edit'] =3D true;
$wgCaptchaTriggersOnNamespace[NS_TRANSLATI= ONS]['edit'] =3D false;

Then, edits on basic pages= will require reCAPTCHA, but edits to translations will not require reCAPTC= HA.
(To the best of my knowledge, that is what will happen; the W= iki will be slightly more secure that way).

mu'o m= i'e .vruxir.


On Friday, December 7, 2012 1:11:27 AM UTC-5= , la gleki wrote:
I changed the valu= e of $wgCaptchaTriggers['edit'] to false.

The current values ar= e
$wgCaptchaTriggers['edit']          =3D = false; 
$wgCaptchaTriggers['create']       &n= bsp;=3D true; 
$wgCaptchaTriggers['addurl']     &n= bsp;  =3D false; 
$wgCaptchaTriggers['createaccoun= t'] =3D true;
$wgCaptchaTriggers['badlogin']      = =3D true;

What needs to be changed or added?

On Frid= ay, December 7, 2012 2:53:58 AM UTC+4, guskant wrote:
On Fri, Dec 7, 2012 at 6:54 AM, vruxir <kex...@gmai= l.com> wrote:
> I noticed this too. I'm pretty sure it is because of the reCAPTCHA= . I have
> been able to work around it by doing this:
>
> Right-click on the link in the first column of the Translation Mes= sages
> table -- for example, the link that looks like "Translations:jboba= u
> selci'a/25/en" -- and open the link in a new tab. Then you can edi= t that
> section of the translation and save the changes (and it will show = the
> required reCAPTCHA below the translation after you click "Save Pag= e".)
>

I got it, thanks!

> I hope there is a way to fix that, because editing each translatio= n section
> in a new tab slows things down. The only obvious fix I can think o= f is to
> disable reCAPTCHA on pages that begin with the prefix "Translation= s:";
> hopefully that is possible.
>
> mu'o mi'e .vruxir.
>
>
> On Thursday, December 6, 2012 4:26:22 PM UTC-5, guskant wrote:
>>
>> Translation pages fail in saving.
>>
>> I go translate a page
>>
>> http://mw.lojba= n.org/index.php?title=3DSpecial%3ATranslate&taction=3Dtransla= te&group=3Dpage-jbobau+selci%27a&language=3Dja&limit= =3D100&task=3Dview
>> and edit my translation, but fail in saving. A dialog popups a= nd says
>> "Saving failed. Please report this error." Please fix this pro= blem.
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google= Groups
> "lojban" group.
> To view this discussion on the web visit
> https://groups.google.com/d/msg/lojban/-/QY6eedzR05Q= J.
>
> To post to this group, send email to loj...@googlegroups.com.
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
>
lojban+un...@googlegroups.com.
> For more options, visit this group at
> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/lojban/-/Hw= eOZyKidzsJ.
=20 To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den.
------=_Part_178_9762357.1356163576700--