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Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2012 08:54:44 -0800 (PST)
From: la gleki <gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com>
To: lojban@googlegroups.com
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Subject: [lojban] Comments inside quotations. {lu ... [sei ...se'u] ... li'u}.
 No solution?
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{sei ... se'u} inside  {lu ...li'u} must be a part of the quote however 
xorxe's Alice in Wonderland uses that to translate quotes split into 
several parts. I'm not the only person who thinks that this is wrong.
IMO {sei} has at least three different meanings.

1. As an alternative to UI ({sei mi gleki ~= .ui})
2. As an alternative to moving the outer bridi into the inner bridi ({do 
melbi sei mi jinvi}={mi jinvi lo du'u do melbi})
3. To translate partitioned quotations.

Some time ago i proposed {xoi} to replace the second meaning of {sei}. And 
now here is my solution for the third meaning.

Proposal.
The same FA two times in a bridi should mean {je} according i.e.
{fe lo barda ku mi pu viska fe lo gerku}={mi pu viska lo barda je gerku}.

Needless to say that "it's a big dog" is rather {ko'a barda je gerku} 
rather than {ko'a barda gerku} as natlangish tanru i.e. metaphors i.e. noun 
phrases with adjectives are not necessary in a logical style of lojban.

Now such proposal allows us to express divided quotations

xorxe's solution: {lu ko klama mi sei la alis cu cusku se'u i mi djica lo 
nu catlu do li'u} (25 syllables)
gleki's solution:  {lu ko klama mi li'u se cusku la alis fa lu i mi djica 
lo nu catlu do li'u} (26 syllables)

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Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
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<div><font color=3D"#333333" face=3D"Arial, sans-serif"><span style=3D"line=
-height: 22px;">{sei ... se'u} inside &nbsp;{lu ...li'u} must be a part of =
the quote however xorxe's Alice in Wonderland uses that to translate quotes=
 split into several parts. I'm not the only person who thinks that this is =
wrong.</span></font></div><div><font color=3D"#333333" face=3D"Arial, sans-=
serif"><span style=3D"line-height: 22px;">IMO {sei} has at least three diff=
erent meanings.</span></font></div><div><font color=3D"#333333" face=3D"Ari=
al, sans-serif"><span style=3D"line-height: 22px;"><br></span></font></div>=
<div><font color=3D"#333333" face=3D"Arial, sans-serif"><span style=3D"line=
-height: 22px;">1. As an alternative to UI ({sei mi gleki ~=3D .ui})</span>=
</font></div><div><font color=3D"#333333" face=3D"Arial, sans-serif"><span =
style=3D"line-height: 22px;">2. As an alternative to moving the outer bridi=
 into the inner bridi ({do melbi sei mi jinvi}=3D{mi jinvi lo du'u do melbi=
})</span></font></div><div><font color=3D"#333333" face=3D"Arial, sans-seri=
f"><span style=3D"line-height: 22px;">3. To translate partitioned quotation=
s.</span></font></div><div><font color=3D"#333333" face=3D"Arial, sans-seri=
f"><span style=3D"line-height: 22px;"><br></span></font></div><div><font co=
lor=3D"#333333" face=3D"Arial, sans-serif"><span style=3D"line-height: 22px=
;">Some time ago i proposed {xoi} to replace the second meaning of {sei}. A=
nd now here is my solution for the third meaning.</span></font></div><div><=
font color=3D"#333333" face=3D"Arial, sans-serif"><span style=3D"line-heigh=
t: 22px;"><br></span></font></div><div><font color=3D"#333333" face=3D"Aria=
l, sans-serif"><span style=3D"line-height: 22px;">Proposal.</span></font></=
div><div><font color=3D"#333333" face=3D"Arial, sans-serif"><span style=3D"=
line-height: 22px;">The same FA two times in a bridi should mean {je} accor=
ding i.e.</span></font></div><div><font color=3D"#333333" face=3D"Arial, sa=
ns-serif"><span style=3D"line-height: 22px;">{fe lo barda ku mi pu viska fe=
 lo gerku}=3D{mi pu viska lo barda je gerku}.</span></font></div><div><font=
 color=3D"#333333" face=3D"Arial, sans-serif"><span style=3D"line-height: 2=
2px;"><br></span></font></div><div><font color=3D"#333333" face=3D"Arial, s=
ans-serif"><span style=3D"line-height: 22px;">Needless to say that "it's a =
big dog" is rather {ko'a barda je gerku} rather than {ko'a barda gerku} as =
natlangish tanru i.e. metaphors i.e. noun phrases with adjectives are not n=
ecessary in a logical style of lojban.</span></font></div><div><font color=
=3D"#333333" face=3D"Arial, sans-serif"><span style=3D"line-height: 22px;">=
<br></span></font></div><div><font color=3D"#333333" face=3D"Arial, sans-se=
rif"><span style=3D"line-height: 22px;">Now such proposal allows us to expr=
ess divided quotations</span></font></div><div><font color=3D"#333333" face=
=3D"Arial, sans-serif"><span style=3D"line-height: 22px;"><br></span></font=
></div><div><font color=3D"#333333" face=3D"Arial, sans-serif"><span style=
=3D"line-height: 22px;">xorxe's solution: {lu ko klama mi sei la alis cu cu=
sku se'u i mi djica lo nu catlu do li'u} (25 syllables)</span></font></div>=
<div><font color=3D"#333333" face=3D"Arial, sans-serif"><span style=3D"line=
-height: 22px;">gleki's solution: &nbsp;{lu ko klama mi li'u se cusku la al=
is fa lu i mi djica lo nu catlu do li'u} (26 syllables)</span></font></div>

<p></p>

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