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Subject: Re: [lojban] Comments inside quotations. {lu ... [sei ...se'u] ...
 li'u}. No solution?
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On Mon, Dec 24, 2012 at 9:54 AM, la gleki <gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com>wrote:

> {sei ... se'u} inside  {lu ...li'u} must be a part of the quote however
> xorxe's Alice in Wonderland uses that to translate quotes split into
> several parts. I'm not the only person who thinks that this is wrong.
> IMO {sei} has at least three different meanings.
>
> 1. As an alternative to UI ({sei mi gleki ~= .ui})
> 2. As an alternative to moving the outer bridi into the inner bridi ({do
> melbi sei mi jinvi}={mi jinvi lo du'u do melbi})
> 3. To translate partitioned quotations.
>
> Some time ago i proposed {xoi} to replace the second meaning of {sei}. And
> now here is my solution for the third meaning.
>
> Proposal.
> The same FA two times in a bridi should mean {je} according i.e.
> {fe lo barda ku mi pu viska fe lo gerku}={mi pu viska lo barda je gerku}.
>

No. IT's currently equivalent to {ju'e}, and should remain so.

>
> Needless to say that "it's a big dog" is rather {ko'a barda je gerku}
> rather than {ko'a barda gerku} as natlangish tanru i.e. metaphors i.e. noun
> phrases with adjectives are not necessary in a logical style of lojban.
>

DISAGREE. It's a big type of dog because it's big for a dog. It's certainly
not big for a house, or a plane, or an elephant- unless it's Clifford.
"Big" is a relative term, not an absolute.

>
> Now such proposal allows us to express divided quotations
>
> xorxe's solution: {lu ko klama mi sei la alis cu cusku se'u i mi djica lo
> nu catlu do li'u} (25 syllables)
> gleki's solution:  {lu ko klama mi li'u se cusku la alis fa lu i mi djica
> lo nu catlu do li'u} (26 syllables)
>

That could work WITHOUT changing the meaning of anything, i.e., with the
language AS IS.


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>



-- 
mu'o mi'e .aionys.

.i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o
(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )

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Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
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<br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Mon, Dec 24, 2012 at 9:54 AM, la glek=
i <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com" targe=
t=3D"_blank">gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquot=
e class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc sol=
id;padding-left:1ex">
<div><font color=3D"#333333" face=3D"Arial, sans-serif"><span style=3D"line=
-height:22px">{sei ... se&#39;u} inside =A0{lu ...li&#39;u} must be a part =
of the quote however xorxe&#39;s Alice in Wonderland uses that to translate=
 quotes split into several parts. I&#39;m not the only person who thinks th=
at this is wrong.</span></font></div>
<div><font color=3D"#333333" face=3D"Arial, sans-serif"><span style=3D"line=
-height:22px">IMO {sei} has at least three different meanings.</span></font=
></div><div><font color=3D"#333333" face=3D"Arial, sans-serif"><span style=
=3D"line-height:22px"><br>
</span></font></div><div><font color=3D"#333333" face=3D"Arial, sans-serif"=
><span style=3D"line-height:22px">1. As an alternative to UI ({sei mi gleki=
 ~=3D .ui})</span></font></div><div><font color=3D"#333333" face=3D"Arial, =
sans-serif"><span style=3D"line-height:22px">2. As an alternative to moving=
 the outer bridi into the inner bridi ({do melbi sei mi jinvi}=3D{mi jinvi =
lo du&#39;u do melbi})</span></font></div>
<div><font color=3D"#333333" face=3D"Arial, sans-serif"><span style=3D"line=
-height:22px">3. To translate partitioned quotations.</span></font></div><d=
iv><font color=3D"#333333" face=3D"Arial, sans-serif"><span style=3D"line-h=
eight:22px"><br>
</span></font></div><div><font color=3D"#333333" face=3D"Arial, sans-serif"=
><span style=3D"line-height:22px">Some time ago i proposed {xoi} to replace=
 the second meaning of {sei}. And now here is my solution for the third mea=
ning.</span></font></div>
<div><font color=3D"#333333" face=3D"Arial, sans-serif"><span style=3D"line=
-height:22px"><br></span></font></div><div><font color=3D"#333333" face=3D"=
Arial, sans-serif"><span style=3D"line-height:22px">Proposal.</span></font>=
</div><div>
<font color=3D"#333333" face=3D"Arial, sans-serif"><span style=3D"line-heig=
ht:22px">The same FA two times in a bridi should mean {je} according i.e.</=
span></font></div><div><font color=3D"#333333" face=3D"Arial, sans-serif"><=
span style=3D"line-height:22px">{fe lo barda ku mi pu viska fe lo gerku}=3D=
{mi pu viska lo barda je gerku}.</span></font></div>
</blockquote><div><br>No. IT&#39;s currently equivalent to {ju&#39;e}, and =
should remain so. <br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"marg=
in:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div><font color=
=3D"#333333" face=3D"Arial, sans-serif"><span style=3D"line-height:22px"><b=
r>
</span></font></div><div><font color=3D"#333333" face=3D"Arial, sans-serif"=
><span style=3D"line-height:22px">Needless to say that &quot;it&#39;s a big=
 dog&quot; is rather {ko&#39;a barda je gerku} rather than {ko&#39;a barda =
gerku} as natlangish tanru i.e. metaphors i.e. noun phrases with adjectives=
 are not necessary in a logical style of lojban.</span></font></div>
</blockquote><div><br>DISAGREE. It&#39;s a big type of dog because it&#39;s=
 big for a dog. It&#39;s certainly not big for a house, or a plane, or an e=
lephant- unless it&#39;s Clifford. &quot;Big&quot; is a relative term, not =
an absolute.<br>
</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-l=
eft:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div><font color=3D"#333333" face=3D"A=
rial, sans-serif"><span style=3D"line-height:22px"><br></span></font></div>=
<div><font color=3D"#333333" face=3D"Arial, sans-serif"><span style=3D"line=
-height:22px">Now such proposal allows us to express divided quotations</sp=
an></font></div>
<div><font color=3D"#333333" face=3D"Arial, sans-serif"><span style=3D"line=
-height:22px"><br></span></font></div><div><font color=3D"#333333" face=3D"=
Arial, sans-serif"><span style=3D"line-height:22px">xorxe&#39;s solution: {=
lu ko klama mi sei la alis cu cusku se&#39;u i mi djica lo nu catlu do li&#=
39;u} (25 syllables)</span></font></div>
<div><font color=3D"#333333" face=3D"Arial, sans-serif"><span style=3D"line=
-height:22px">gleki&#39;s solution: =A0{lu ko klama mi li&#39;u se cusku la=
 alis fa lu i mi djica lo nu catlu do li&#39;u} (26 syllables)</span></font=
></div>
</blockquote><div><br>That could work WITHOUT changing the meaning of anyth=
ing, i.e., with the language AS IS.<br>=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_=
quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1=
ex">
<span class=3D"HOEnZb"><font color=3D"#888888">

<p></p>

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</font></span></blockquote></div><br><br clear=3D"all"><br>-- <br>mu&#39;o =
mi&#39;e .aionys.<br><br>.i.e&#39;ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi=
.luk. mi patfu do zo&#39;o<br>(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father=
. :D )<br>

<p></p>

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