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Subject: Re: [lojban] Comments inside quotations. {lu ... [sei ...se'u] ...
 li'u}. No solution?
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On Tue, Dec 25, 2012 at 11:40 PM, la gleki <gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com>wrote:

> On Tuesday, December 25, 2012 10:22:54 PM UTC+4, tsani wrote:
>
>> On 25 December 2012 09:01, la gleki <gleki.is...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, December 25, 2012 5:39:20 PM UTC+4, aionys wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Just as my-two-cents comment, I would like to say that I too dislike
>>>> the use of {sei ... se'u} for split quoting. As it stands right now, there
>>>> isn't really any other option, although I think I like the idea of FAlu for
>>>> that purpose, as gleki spoke of earlier.
>>>>
>>>
>>> I'll wait until tsani replies. I'm not a legislative power in
>>> Lojbanistan.
>>>
>>>
>> Haha, I'm glad to see people actually thinking that I have some voice
>> around here. Regardless, I don't really, given the dictatorial nature of
>> Lojbanistan.
>>
>
> It doesn't matter. Any dictator will lose their power in Lojbanistan.
>

How many years has .camgusmis. AKA Robin been the BDFL? Also, I think the
"For Life" part of his title kind of disproves your statement.


> It's not that "controlled development" described by camgusmis in "Lojban
> you are doing it wrong" essay. Fluent speakers + logical thinking decide
> and I will ignore any dictators unless there are many of them.
>

In that you're about half-wrong. Lojban is a proscribed language, meaning
that the meanings of words, the grammar, etc. are decided by an official
body. Only this official body, known, by the way, as the BPFK, and the
BDFL, who is the head of the BPFK, are able to make changes of any kind to
the language. While it is certainly hoped that these people are logical in
their thinking and have a more than passing knowledge of Lojban, such is
not guaranteed. For example, when Robin assumed the title of BDFL, he was
not, at that time, fluent. Self-admittedly. Since the birth of his
daughters, he had become very proficient in Lojban and may consider himself
fluent /now/, but that fluency or its lack was never a hindrance to the
performance of his job on the BPFK or as the BDFL, because though his
/vocabulary/ was lacking such that he was nowhere near fluent, his
understanding of how Lojban /works/ was and still is excellent- and that's
the important part when it comes to decisions about Lojban.


> To return to the main question, using sei to split quotes has some
>> inherent ambiguity; using sa'a merely diminishes it, I think. That being
>> said, I don't like the idea of split quotes at all. they seem unlojbanic,
>> especially considering that the resulting sentence is not a bridi. It's
>> just a free-floating sumti between two {.i}. I don't have any objections to
>> using FAlu, but I think that it's stylistically poor.
>>
>
> Your reply appeared to be much easier  than i could expect.
> I also think it's a poor style. Nevetheless, if we apply {ju'e} then won't
> it be
>
> xorxe's solution: {lu ko klama mi sei la alis cu cusku se'u i mi djica lo
> nu catlu do li'u} (25 syllables)
> gleki's second solution:  {lu ko klama mi li'u se cusku la alis fa lu mi
> djica lo nu catlu do li'u} (25 syllables, splitting sumti implies {ju'e})
>
> ?
>
> If so there are no extra syllables compared to the previous solution.
>
> *pei*?
>
>
>
>> .i mi'e la tsani mu'o
>>
>  --
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-- 
mu'o mi'e .aionys.

.i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o
(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )

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Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
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<div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Tue, Dec 25, 2012 at 11:40 PM, la gleki <span=
 dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com" target=3D"_b=
lank">gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=
=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padd=
ing-left:1ex">
On Tuesday, December 25, 2012 10:22:54 PM UTC+4, tsani wrote:<div class=3D"=
im"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0;margin-left:0.8ex;b=
order-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">On 25 December 2012 09:01, la g=
leki <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a>gleki.is...@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<b=
r>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margi=
n:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">

<div><br><br>On Tuesday, December 25, 2012 5:39:20 PM UTC+4, aionys wrote:<=
blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0;margin-left:0.8ex;border=
-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Just as my-two-cents comment, I woul=
d like to say that I too dislike the use of {sei ... se&#39;u} for split qu=
oting. As it stands right now, there isn&#39;t really any other option, alt=
hough I think I like the idea of FAlu for that purpose, as gleki spoke of e=
arlier.<br clear=3D"all">


</blockquote><div><br></div></div><div>I&#39;ll wait until tsani replies. I=
&#39;m not a legislative power in Lojbanistan.</div><div><div><br></div></d=
iv></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Haha, I&#39;m glad to see people actual=
ly thinking that I have some voice around here. Regardless, I don&#39;t rea=
lly, given the dictatorial nature of Lojbanistan.</div>
</div></blockquote><div><br></div></div><div>It doesn&#39;t matter. Any dic=
tator will lose their power in Lojbanistan.</div></blockquote><div><br>How =
many years has .camgusmis. AKA Robin been the BDFL? Also, I think the &quot=
;For Life&quot; part of his title kind of disproves your statement.<br>
=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;borde=
r-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div>It&#39;s not that &quot;contro=
lled development&quot; described by camgusmis in &quot;Lojban you are doing=
 it wrong&quot; essay. Fluent speakers + logical thinking decide and I will=
 ignore any dictators unless there are many of them.</div>
</blockquote><div><br>In that you&#39;re about half-wrong. Lojban is a pros=
cribed language, meaning that the meanings of words, the grammar, etc. are =
decided by an official body. Only this official body, known, by the way, as=
 the BPFK, and the BDFL, who is the head of the BPFK, are able to make chan=
ges of any kind to the language. While it is certainly hoped that these peo=
ple are logical in their thinking and have a more than passing knowledge of=
 Lojban, such is not guaranteed. For example, when Robin assumed the title =
of BDFL, he was not, at that time, fluent. Self-admittedly. Since the birth=
 of his daughters, he had become very proficient in Lojban and may consider=
 himself fluent /now/, but that fluency or its lack was never a hindrance t=
o the performance of his job on the BPFK or as the BDFL, because though his=
 /vocabulary/ was lacking such that he was nowhere near fluent, his underst=
anding of how Lojban /works/ was and still is excellent- and that&#39;s the=
 important part when it comes to decisions about Lojban.<br>
=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;borde=
r-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div class=3D"im"><div></div><block=
quote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0;margin-left:0.8ex;border-left=
:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">

<div></div><div>To return to the main question, using sei to split quotes h=
as some inherent ambiguity; using sa&#39;a merely diminishes it, I think. T=
hat being said, I don&#39;t like the idea of split quotes at all. they seem=
 unlojbanic, especially considering that the resulting sentence is not a br=
idi. It&#39;s just a free-floating sumti between two {.i}. I don&#39;t have=
 any objections to using FAlu, but I think that it&#39;s stylistically poor=
.</div>
</div></blockquote><div><br></div></div><div>Your reply appeared to be much=
 easier =A0than i could expect.</div><div>I also think it&#39;s a poor styl=
e. Nevetheless, if we apply {ju&#39;e} then won&#39;t it be</div><div><br>
</div><div><div class=3D"im"><div><font color=3D"#333333" face=3D"Arial, sa=
ns-serif"><span style=3D"line-height:22px">xorxe&#39;s solution: {lu ko kla=
ma mi sei la alis cu cusku se&#39;u i mi djica lo nu catlu do li&#39;u} (25=
 syllables)</span></font></div>
</div><div><font color=3D"#333333" face=3D"Arial, sans-serif"><span style=
=3D"line-height:22px">gleki&#39;s second solution: =A0{lu ko klama mi li&#3=
9;u se cusku la alis fa lu mi djica lo nu catlu do li&#39;u} (25 syllables,=
 splitting sumti implies {ju&#39;e})</span></font></div>
</div><div><font color=3D"#333333" face=3D"Arial, sans-serif"><span style=
=3D"line-height:22px"><br></span></font></div><div><font color=3D"#333333" =
face=3D"Arial, sans-serif"><span style=3D"line-height:22px">?</span></font>=
</div><div>
<font color=3D"#333333" face=3D"Arial, sans-serif"><span style=3D"line-heig=
ht:22px"><br></span></font></div><div><font color=3D"#333333" face=3D"Arial=
, sans-serif"><span style=3D"line-height:22px">If so there are no extra syl=
lables compared to the previous solution.</span></font></div>
<div><font color=3D"#333333" face=3D"Arial, sans-serif"><span style=3D"line=
-height:22px"><br></span></font></div><div><font color=3D"#333333" face=3D"=
Arial, sans-serif"><span style=3D"line-height:22px"><i>pei</i>?</span></fon=
t></div>
<div class=3D"im"><div><font color=3D"#333333" face=3D"Arial, sans-serif"><=
span style=3D"line-height:22px"><br></span></font></div><div><br></div><blo=
ckquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0;margin-left:0.8ex;border-le=
ft:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">

<div><br></div><div>.i mi&#39;e la tsani mu&#39;o</div></div>
</blockquote>

<p></p>

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</div></div></blockquote></div><br><br clear=3D"all"><br>-- <br>mu&#39;o mi=
&#39;e .aionys.<br><br>.i.e&#39;ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.l=
uk. mi patfu do zo&#39;o<br>(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. =
:D )<br>

<p></p>

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